Support | News | Classic | F.A.Q. | Discord | Discussions | Wiki | Roadmap

damkiller There is an issue with your images, I cant load them in cosmoteer

CursedPh4nt0m I tested your arrow by setting both ships in AI normal
The result is that it get pretty close to win the fight

the medium reactors in the wings run out of power rather fast, but the large one rarely gets close to that

I fixed that in a version with continuous moving hallway

the damage differs depending on the movement direct, but loosing a reactor hurts a lot

of course, but in my tests, reactors are often destroyed when it's powered weapons and shields are destroyed first, not decreasing that much ship capacity
I have issues when the ship is moving forward with large reactor chain exploding the truster's reactor and splitting the ship remainings

weapons with penetration power easily weaken the design by destroying corridors and moving walkways

I have rarely the problem against your arrow, again w
I fixed it as well

your systems went dry rather fast during my test fights

I made door conections improvements, setup storage to supply shields only
due to interconnected design, crew bulks are quite far away and they take time to load the first batteries, causing the fast drain I guess
at most 1/4 of weapons got unpowered, from what I learned in the old ship building guide it should be fine

you are stretching some distances rather far (the corridor stripes above the quarters and to the flak)

well, I need a connection, factory dont require much power, i am considering adding a storage for shields

all CRs are next to reactors

Since reactors explode when it's powered modules are gone, and CR when reactors are gone, it should be fine
also it seem that the best place to not have them blew up by two different reactors is next to one reactor 😉

the pd really didn't do much against the four missile launchers of my Arrow
(the flak only caught some eb shots too)

I played the previous version in mp against (bad) ships barges, and point defense is quite effective against missiles
the pd focus the cannons shots too, that's why they are ineffective

Sorry what is the HBL ? now I think all dors placement are intentional

try using some more internal armor, the Arrow's LCs tore some nasty holes in your ships frame

there is some protecting the moving walkways now, but I wont reproduce the arrow's armor layout because I think it would space shields too much

Here is my improved version :
image https://forum.cosmoteer.net/assets/images/6640-BH0dRKlhT49fnYWI.png

Flak still seem have trouble catching cannon shots, despite covering 4 tiles at least in front of the ship with his firing arc, it's also hard to see where it shot and how efficient it is

Loumardes Wow, that certainly is a long reply. I'll just skip anything that's solved and focus on the rest.

Loumardes Since reactors explode when it's powered modules are gone, and CR when reactors are gone, it should be fine

That was more of a general thing I mentioned because some ships have more smaller reactors and don't suffer as much from loosing one of them. (My ship would be a fitting example, despite being quite old and really needing some overhaul soon.)

Loumardes I wont reproduce the arrow's armor layout

That's a good decision. That entire ship was a 20 minute work done with some random modules I 'borrowed' from earlier designs. The double armor only happened because each of these modules was surrounded by some and I was too lazy to remove it. It's been a while since I last reworked it, but you can be sure about half of the armor will be gone with the next version.
However, you probably know why I still prefer modules after fighting this design. The 'old-style' ships may be more expensive, slower and have less weapons as well as worse reactor efficiency, but they can tank many more hits than your average interconnected ship.

Loumardes Sorry what is the HBL ?

I'm too lazy to write 'heavy laser blaster', so I usually end up with just those three letters. The doors on the new version seem good tho.


Now, about the new design:

  • The secondary ammo factories at the flak are unneccessary; it falls under the 'don't waste resources for constant firerates' rule you mentioned already.

  • There's no guarantee that's not influenced by one of my active mods, but during testing (the Arrow's 4 missile launchers fireing at your ship from out of weapon range) the pd was pretty much useless. About 65% of the missiles were destroyed by the flak, 20% hit the shields, the pd only got the remains despite getting full attention by the crew thanks to the lack of movement and weapon fire.

  • Try distributing your quarters to reduce the crew reaction delay.

  • The flak shielding really needs a battery storage. It appears you forgot to add some armor on the left flak btw.

  • Consider giving the shields in the tip a power storage too.

I also found your design is unintentially abusing the AI, as the rather unprotected shield generators protecting the flak eventually get targetted by the Arrow's inaccurate LCs for no apparent reason, usually costing my design the integrity of one compartment while trying to shoot down those quite unimportant parts.

    Loumardes Strange I can load them in cosmotter maybe try to drag them or update the game?

      • Edited

      Loumardes Large reactors are not very useful for anything other than ion cores in my experience, they just produce too much power to use used in any reasonably sized space. Medium reactors are much more useful as they can power 4 HLs (heavy lasers), 4 shields, and a thruster block with minimal travel distance or power storage.

      Also, your flak placement could be better. I would recommend looking at "Cres" in this thread: https://forum.cosmoteer.net/d/10228-0neye-s-triangles
      Flak placed this way do much better vs missiles and can still protect lasers farther down the line. They are also easier to protect.

      6 days later

      damkiller I have done test fught against theses ships, and as cursedPh4nt0m expected it,
      I tear apart the two first ships, and struggle with the latter

      I have nearly as strong alpha strike than your second ship, plus flak, so it was easy to defeat him

      I have some improvement tips for the last ship :

      it's 2 shield leave a central gap that allow me to easily cut the armor between them and destroy the reactor without hitting the shield arc, maybe consider orienting them inward, like we have done in our triangles' front, so they got mutual protection

      the only crew members allowed to use FE are located in the back of the ship, and the FE are located in the middle, making them ineffective in putting off fires

        Loumardes You might've actually outdone me here, I only expected the second one to go down rather easy, as I scaled his railwall with my old flakwall/railfan hybrid, which is basically untouchable thanks to the amount of flak. On second thought I realise his design isn't even remotely as well protected and can't really put it's railguns to proper use due to the shield overlapping on your ship.
        I haven't checked the ships myself, but the tips on the last one seem reasonable too.

          Oneye
          haven't I found a niche use of the large reactor ?
          He power 8 HL, EB and shields, and his crew route is same than the one in the medium reactor sections of my ship, but maybe both routes are too long and ineffective

          It's true that I could use a medium reactor instead, powering 2 HL on each side
          When I have build it, I have first designed a medium reactor section, put 4 of them to form the triangle shape, and noticed the 2 front reactors are too close each other, and that I could use a large reactor

          I have also easily beat the cannonwall of "the ultimate ship design guide" with it, and it's first challenge with the 600k "cannonwall" I posted here a while ago

          The reason I have not tried theses challenges earlier :

          Oneye Try to beat both of these ships on AI normal using the same design and 600k credits or less

          I figured out a week ago that "same design" mean the same ship to defeat both oponent and not same design that opponents 😉

            I am happy to show you the last iteration of my design :

            image https://forum.cosmoteer.net/assets/images/6640-cOtJ5281sRYFASPo.png
            I have placed the flak as suggested by Oneye, my own touch beeing their offset, alowing both factories to power the same flak
            While not costing anything, it allow one flak to shot at constant firerate when the enemy focus fire one side of the ship

            theses flaks spaced more the 2 sides of the ship, allowing to place the thruster module closer to the large reactor, and to remove it's dedicated reactor, althought it only save money for 20 crew and routes got longer

            I also added medium thrusters to increase rotation authority, and avoid strafe due to huge thrusters trying to rotate the ship

            There is an issue with the shields power's route crossing the flak, the storage stay only half full even without fighting, I am considering adding a small reactor there
            And I forget to test removing the Point Defence system

            More testfight :
            I can beat reliably the @CursedPh4nt0m 's Arrow by focus fire it's weapons one by one, especially with my new design
            So @CursedPh4nt0m , the modules design isn't that tankiest, because weapons are not much protected than in
            interconected design.
            I forget to mention that I think that the cost saving effect comes mostly from larger reactors, not interconected design, so if you want to make a v2 I would enjoy testing it 🙂

            I now defeat too the @damkiller 's missile barge with my new version
            Before, I was already able to break through his entire armor, before beeing destroyed

            Now, the increased flak effectiveness seem to be enough to contain most of the missiles while they keep ammo stored
            The final damage to my ship vary depending of how fast I choose targets, I first destroy the reactor, then first crew bunks, then the first missiles modules of one side and the medium reactor

            Thanks for yours tips !
            I am pleased by how all improvements make it a much better ship
            And waiting for the next challenge

            • Edited

            Loumardes Removing the medium reactor and moving the large one closer was a good choice, not it feels like less of a waste. Also, yeah I would use a small reactor instead of that storage, I would also add more armor to the front. Overall much better! I might edit this post with a challenge ship later, be sure to test it AI vs AI and not by piloting it yourself if you have been.

            Edit:
            After some testing, I've found that your ship heavily lacks crew. The heavy lasers can only shoot close to 24/7 whenever not under fire. If the shields are getting hit the guns are not firing, and that is a problem.
            Also, it seems pretty weak to cannons because of this. All of my 1mill cannon walls were able to strip most of its lasers off in a few seconds. I would suggest adding both more crew, and shielding. Try to put the shields under the weapons so you can fit more of each into a smaller space.

            Loumardes Judging from your reply, could it be you piloted your design manually? Yeah, the AI is kinda dumb, but that's how you usually test ships in singleplayer. Having one ship piloted is quite unfair due to the way better piloting and targeting decisions.
            I already have a V3 (the one you fought is V2), but it's still using compartments as that has been my style for ages and I'll need some time to bring myself to assign all crew quarters on an interconnected ship, but I've reduced the wheight and cost without cutting in the firepower or shields, so it should pose a good challenge.

            10 days later

            Heya! Just wanted to know if there's any sort of flaw in my ship's... err... everything? (design, firepower, efficiency, durability, etc.)

            Here's my ship design:
            Gilded Carnage

            By the way I also have no idea which ship category this one fits in, so... just classify it in any way you want 🙂
            (Mods are: Kroom's Forge, WH40K, Armor Expanded/Extended????)

              Oiseau_Noir (My mod folder says it's 'normal armor expanded'.)
              I don't have Warhammer loaded rn and neither have the time to do so now, but the interior screenshot should suffice for now.

              • remove some doors, you still have many double connections that won't do anything but adding cost

              • check on reactor output and (actual) part energy consumtion, it might be you used too many reactors

              • rotate the missile factories to place doors to the launchers; also rotate the small missile launchers to face outside, I doubt their range makes them effective when facing forward

              • Kroom's projectile turrets don't need energy

              • consider putting some stronger turning thrusters to the front, the current ones certainly lack the thrust to turn that thing effectively

              • remove the [whatever the 40k crew thingies were called again] from parts that only need power, given the connected reactors are enough to keep them powered

              There's probably some other stuff, but that's what I found now.

                Oneye your ship heavily lacks crew

                Well that's true
                I have tuned crew amount with autofire, but forgotten to check while in battle
                I have improved it with this version :

                image https://forum.cosmoteer.net/assets/images/6640-IZ6bNS3xq4vVU6Mn.png
                But I am slightely off pricerange, and I require more armor in front, wich may obstruct firing arcs

                Oneye hields under the weapons

                I designed new compartments to put them behind HL, and tested some modules in this ship :

                image https://forum.cosmoteer.net/assets/images/6640-YhvgP6nvc8OJrIuq.png

                I am gonna keep edium reactors modules, maybe gona replace central reactor by a medium one closer to the front

                The flak firing arc matches the hull profile, but theirs modules are not definitive

                Right now his flauws are that HL are protected by one shield only, and it's harder for crew to reach them

                It won against the 1M cannonwall from ultimate ship guide, but suffer early damage on HL, and I don't have anything else to test against

                I am open to Feedback, and continue working on it, since I would like to take part in the today tournament

                  CursedPh4nt0m you piloted your design manually?

                  Yes, In fact, when I started theses tests, I do not know what to target
                  I have done huge progress, but obviously, not the AI encountered, so yes it went unbalanced

                  I will do test fights with both AIs, but I noticed that the Arrow V2 is much stronger against others AI trying to go for Controls Rooms, than against players wich disable all it's modules by desroying it's weapons.
                  Waiting to encounter the V3 🙂

                    Just reworked it to make a testable ship, with medium reactors :

                    image https://forum.cosmoteer.net/assets/images/6640-T4wFXCm0ao7nOheS.png

                    Thrusters sections temporary

                      22 days later

                      Just wondering how combat ability is tested on the forums here. Does it differ for different types of builds? Like id assume walls are probably tested effectively with AI, but would things like rail builds and strafers be tested in direct control, or would they also use AI?

                      Lelers You generally test combat effectiveness AI vs AI, which honestly doesn't work for everything and generally has worse results than player control, but it makes for more or less even chances. However, if you manage to control both sides in a fair way, that is also accepted as measurement, probably even more than the normal one due to more realistic results.

                        5 days later

                        Lelers

                        Best way to test is to get competitive MP players to shoot at it and then give feedback. If a top 10/20 player asks for the Blueprint then your ship has great potential.

                          I got a very well-studied ship in my hands, but MP doesn't work for me for some reason. I just download ships from the forums and let them fight, and so far no opponent ship managed to win :3.

                          I'm starting to get somewhat cocky and need a valid match, is there a proud and powerful duelist who dare to accept my challange? (just non-illegal ships, 1vs1 with no fleets).

                          After that I'd like to seek your help to optimize my design further.

                            Danwood If MP isn't working for you, how would you duel anyway? And which price range is that ship in btw? Might be I can find you a proper challenge.