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image https://forum.cosmoteer.net/assets/images/7016-TmMinuEoNdjLP9aV.jpeg

1) In the first minute the fight seems even, I even fear the beams could destroy my center.

image https://forum.cosmoteer.net/assets/images/7016-C31hfijCz3iFAqzA.jpeg

3) The beams are destroyed, and my ship's PD and flak counter all the missiles, the fight is finished here...

image https://forum.cosmoteer.net/assets/images/7016-RLXzZA3JKNXmP4oQ.jpeg

4) The end, Minor damage to the front, I let the AI fight, but controlling it myself could have spared that damage by rotating the ship slightly avoiding the beam damage stacking.

    What do you think?
    image https://forum.cosmoteer.net/assets/images/6954-ggrBBOVYxYuE69nR.png

    Danwood Well, time to rework some old stuff then.


    Minty_Kee2
    The center ion beam is rather unprotected (at least use the small cones to block off some shots) and the lasers have a quite limited fireing ark. However, it would be a good idea to replace those with electro bolters to get rid of shields and allow the main weapon to deal damage.
    I believe that ship would work just as fine with one reactor less, but the part placement might make that complicated.

      CursedPh4nt0m , this is The Stalker Mk. 2 Alt.
      image https://forum.cosmoteer.net/assets/images/6954-3XbyNhVe1XGGwnUi.png

        10 days later

        Can I be a student? here is my biggest vanilla ship:
        image https://forum.cosmoteer.net/assets/images/7033-697lHi7vnFtVPC8A.png

          Į̶̮̟̯͋̿ͣ͢t̛̠̥̲̣͎͇͖͈̼̞̺͝'͚̾s̵͓̏̈͟ͅ ͡c̑ͣ̅͏̫̼͔ä̻̜̘̻́̂̎ͦ͐ͅl̡̧̩̬͈̮̭̰̳̩͐͒͛̆͋ͩ̅͒̏͢ͅḷ̫͌̋e̥̬͖͉͉͇͔̟̹̖͉̲̺̒ͩͥͥ͌͐̃̈́͛́ͪ̓͑d̴̐̆̅͂҉͏̼̗̻̤ ̿͑̌̽̉͋̎͑̏ͩ͂͟͏͜t̘͇͉̻̫̊̉̄̾͗̕͞h̆ͨͬe̖̹̱̤̦͓̣̖̱̯̗͖͇̿̏̇͗ͩ͐ͣ̊ͮ͂ͣͩ͗̌ͅ ̤̠͋̚s͇̺͍͍͚c̡̢̈́͐̀ͯͪ͗̓̐̏̇͜i͆̊̋m͍͈̖̖̫̮͓͈͈͎̩̋̓ͣ̑̎̇ͧ́͗ͦ̅ḭ̰̲̭̩̠͉͉̫͈̪̙̦̩̬t̪͖̞̘͓̪̤̮̠͚͚͐ͦ̏͊̍̋̋̋̃ͧ̋ͩͅa̪̥̜͎̙͌̉̊ͤ̌͋ͅr̲͔̝.̩̜́̔͝

            removing comment

              dodo_bear sorry

              dodo_bear
              Do try to keep comments that could be considered spam to a minimum.

              Disclaimer: I'm not a teacher, and you should read 0neye's guide to ship building.

              Anyways, here's some problems with your ship:
              1. You have reactors clustered together when you want them separate, both to more efficiently distribute power throughout the ship and so they don't chain-react and tear your ship apart.
              2. No corridors or conveyers to efficiently move power around.
              3. You don't actually need that many reactors, the reason things are running out of power is poor logistics.
              4. The ship can't focus fire all of its weapons at its front, and what it can focus is underwhelming.
              5. The reactors are poorly armored.
              6. Too many reactors, the ship can run on fewer
              7. The frontal compartments have no fire extinguishers.
              8. You have too many missile factories or too few launchers (1 missile factor can support 2-3 launchers, as covered in 0neye's guide).
              9. Ions violate the rule of combining equal strength beams.
              10. Frontal prism is unshielded and exposed.
              11. Factories, both bullet and missile, are not connected directly to their consumers.
              12. The weapons on the inside have prohibitively small firing arcs.
              13. The engine rooms it does have are underutilized and redundant (engine rooms don't stack, having multiple touching a thruster is a waste of engine room).
              14. Command rooms in reactor blast radius

              Hatter Heck, I may not be Alpha, but you're hired none the less.

                Hatter No corridors

                wait are coridors inefficient now?

                chief_chaman478
                No, nothing was changed. Walking speed along the corridor is more, than speed through the rooms.

                  barsnik96 change of meta? i always thought they were usefull, especially in rail gun shield moudules

                    chief_chaman478
                    Corridors are situational, personally I find myself using double walkways when I need to move power around and only using corridors on smaller ships or to power ammo factories.

                    The rest of my comment:

                    No corridors or walkways to efficiently move power around.

                    I'm referring the logistics. For example: if you mouse over the small laser at the front, you can see that the nearest source of power is 50m away through corridor, four shield generators, three quarters, two missile storages, an FTL drive, and a large cannon. Admittedly, I'm picking the worst example I could find, but it does examplify the underlying problem.

                    Routing power through rooms is less efficient and more crewpower intensive then using a corridor, which in turn is less efficient then using a double wide walkway. Small reactor-based crafts can get away with no corridor or walkways by having the reactor touching everything or only going a short distance through a room, which saves weight in corridor at the cost of losing out on the cheaper power provided by larger reactors. Outside of some ion setups, mediums and larges can't do the same because everything they power doesn't fit next to them.

                    Oh, and also:
                    Hatter
                    15. Could consolidate bunks into corridors

                    I am basically going to re-do the pylons, but the center will be interesting.

                      I'm new to the thread, so I'm not really sure where to start with this except post something and see where it goes... That being said, I GUESS I'll open up with an early design and work my way up from there? My earliest designs were already improved on as I went through multiple play-throughs, though I guess this one sort of stands out as one that stood out as... SORT OF a decent craft, if not for certain distinct flaws that I would go on to avoid later.
                      image https://forum.cosmoteer.net/assets/images/6799-1gRKi1xicnsVpKx7.png
                      Capitol Destroyer - 1,785,000 cost, 362 crew, 1508.8 Tonnes
                      "A Capitol ship, very heavily armed and with some degree of defense. Be advised that while this craft has a very powerful initial attack, prep time is very slow."
                      This is a craft where I experimented mostly with crew assignment, but at some point, I lost said crew assignments. At the same time, though, I sort of lost interest in that sort of thing because of how involved it is, which just didn't seem worth it in the long run. This in particular is, I guess, where I could probably most improve on?
                      Edit: A couple of my more recent builds can be found here: https://forum.cosmoteer.net/d/10586-a-strange-little-thing if that's something to go off of.

                        I_Am_Jarvis To cut a long story short: You ended up in the 'spam'-phase (everyone had that at one point), which basically represents a 'much helps much' mentality. However, that naturally increases the cost and actually decreases efficiency, so it's far from optimal. Apparently it's where most people end up before coming here, so you'll find similar lists of issues for other ships too:

                        • that ship is desperately overcrewed and has too many reactors

                        • engine rooms are rather inefficient when not used to the full extend

                        • all storage besides battery storage is worse than factories (with extremely few exceptions)

                        • the back is completely unprotected and the front as well as the sides are lacking in defenses too

                        • pd is rather bad at shooting down missiles, a craft of this size should use flak

                        • a proper thruster distribution is important for maneuverability and can add massively to survivability and damage potential

                        • missile/factory ration is 3 launchers to one factory, but 2 launchers fit better on a factory, so that's common and acceptable too

                        • crew is rather slow even with walkways, to try to place the factories and then the quarters as close to the things they supply as possible without exposing them too much

                        • placing explosive parts close together easily leads to chain-explosions dealing massive damage to your ship

                        • internal armor is the only effective way to protect from penetrating weapons like railguns and cannons and also adds to general survivability

                        • putting your control rooms close together will make it rather easy for the enemy to pick of the second after destroying the first, so it's better to distribute them over the ship instead

                        That's what I found until now, gtg for now, but I'll probably add a ship for you to test yours against soon.

                        CursedPh4nt0m Yeah, like I said, it was mostly intended for screwing around with crew assignment, hence why there's so many crew quarters. As for the design itself, I THINK what was intended was that if it ended up in a fight it couldn't win, there'd be the contingency plan of - once detonated - resulting in a light, thruster-heavy craft that could make a quick getaway, though I did learn later on that having that sort of mentality makes for crafts that are fairly ineffective in the long run. Take THIS most recent craft I made for example, which is basically my Cosmoteer rendition of the Death Star.
                        image https://forum.cosmoteer.net/assets/images/6799-4zapkpZYObWyJ0o9.png
                        Now... I know it doesn't have a small hole as a glaring weakness, but other than that, I'd say it works well enough as a non-mod representation. At the same time, though... It's laughably short-range, which honestly isn't great for a craft of this size, which I do recognize, but last time I checked the Death Star doesn't have missiles... I also made sure to make this thing basically armor EVERYWHERE except for where the crew would need to traverse, so it IS completely functional... It's just also a wee bit underwhelming for the fact that it costs a whole 6.25M credits... And weighs 9,365 Tonnes... Speaking of contingencies, that I mentioned at the start, notice that this one has one as well, but in this case, it doesn't impact the overall effectiveness this time. Even so, this - I'm PRETTY sure - is more cost effective than the previous craft.

                          • Edited

                          I_Am_Jarvis
                          (standard not-a-teacher-disclaimer)
                          Have you alreadyread 0neye's guide to ship building in the guides section of the forum? If not, do so.
                          Anyways, problems with your ship:
                          Unnecessary reactors (especially the engine compartments, which could run off of one reactor), FTL cores are excessively armored, could consolidate small reactors into mediums, unnecessary doors, and reactor chaining takes out entire weapon batteries and all four control rooms are consolidated in the blast radius of a single reactor.
                          Also, by nature of the distributed weapons it can't effectively focus fire. But I consider this more a design choice then a flaw.

                          In testing, this dies fairly easily against three of your 'capitol destroyers' inspite of being worth ~3.6 capitol destroyers, credit-wise. I am dubious that it is more cost-efficient.

                          Could you test it against two (2) of these EMP-Cannonwalls with Normal AI on all ships? I'm assuming you know how to use creative mode's battle helper.
                          image https://forum.cosmoteer.net/assets/images/6411-lawQLnoiVQwe1ReL.png

                            Hatter
                            "In testing, this dies fairly easily against three of your 'capitol destroyers' inspite of being worth ~3.6 capitol destroyers, credit-wise. I am dubious that it is more cost-efficient."
                            Simultaneous or consecutive? There's actually a huge difference between the two, because simultaneous essentially MULTIPLIES the overall effectiveness, rather than stacks linearly. I can test this myself while I'm at it, though I have to say I'm having trouble figuring out how one copies other people's builds into Creative...

                            Also, the excessive armor is more-or-less intentional to sort of reflect the durability that the original Death Star had. I should make it a point that this build was essentially a mock-build with more purpose towards representation over effectiveness, though the latter was done to the best of my ability without losing the former.

                            That being said, there IS one craft that I'm currently working on that's more or less an attempt to make something that's really compact yet still very effective while keeping the cost... SORT OF low, but not hindering low:
                            image https://forum.cosmoteer.net/assets/images/6799-fREDugmUB9n2rNUA.png
                            Speaking of, trying my darnedest not to be annoyed at the hitbox for those Heavy Laser Blasters, with how that extraneous space ahead of them is obnoxiously where I'd want the armor to have connected for better protection... Actually... I JUST noticed that it's like a mini Capitol Destroyer, so I think I'll test one or two of these on it...

                            Edit: . . . YEP! Way more cost effective than the Capitol Destroyer. Two on one, they ate it for breakfast, lunch, AND dinner with surprisingly low damage to one (I actually kinda expected one to die to the C.D.'s initial strike) and that's with being collectively cheaper...