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Kroom By using these fighter i was able to destroy both ships by using only a fraction of the money, those ships use a lot of money in propulsion but even so is not nearly enough to keep these fighter away form them:

The game doesn't spawn homogenous swarms of small ships in high level systems, and doesn't coordinate ships. If you're only interested in MP there's an attention cost to large numbers of small ships because you can't just pause for minutes to give them all orders every time something changes. There's also the ring of death which magically kills kites anyways so it's not a relevant context for balancing long range weapons.

If you made Bounty Hunter spawn thirty Stalker2s in place of a tier 9 ship they would get pulled a few at a time by anything with more than 250m weapon range because they only have fighter cockpits and AI ships don't share vision radius.

In actual play you see maybe two Kilrathi fighters (why never the human stuff or anything original or from other settings?) in a clump with larger ships and can easily avoid fighting them at the same time because of their short aggro range.

Comparing that fighter to other capital ships suggests that it's the fighters that are too strong not the capital ships that are too weak. Running them in battle helper with a movement order to get them into sensor range they beat too many of the design contest winners. They don't decisively beat Excelsis, which tricks the AI into sticking fighter after fighter right in front of its flaks while shooting at armor and stuff irrelevant to the fight and they don't beat the Marathon because after it breaks apart they target the almost harmless and difficult to kill section with a control room and let the missile sections pick them off with impunity.

Fighter guns appear to have mostly fair tradeoffs compared to the vanilla laser blaster only if the value of a crewman and small volume are ignored. The narrow arc and short range are a fair trade for the higher shot speed and the greater price per damage is a fair trade for the higher energy efficiency, but being 2 tiles smaller using 1x1 or 1x2 bunks and 1125 or 1325 credits cheaper depending on if adding crew space would necessitate adding a door. The second tier fighter guns have a further compactness advantage doing damage more comparable to weapons that are either many times bulkier like the large laser blaster or that require an ammo factory. You may have overvalued firing arc, but firing arc has very little relevance on the sort of ship they're intended for. It's wide enough several can focus fire on a single tile, the availability of side mounts and the ability to fire through armor duplicate the advantage vanilla laser blasters and electrobolts get from their >180 degree arcs. The narrow arc imposes little drawback. I'm pretty sure you've also undervalued armor, possibly because the mechanics have changed since you introduced the guns. The low HP of fighter guns may be intended to compensate for being placed behind armor, but something behind a 800 HP 2x1 armor block or even a 400 HP 2x1 wedge is more durable to explosive and penetrating weapons than a 1200 HP standard cannon against explosive and penetrating weapons.

The ability to beat most capital ships with guns renders the single shot torpedoes and the larger, more vulnerable weapons like the fusion cannon and plasma lancer obsolete. If it were just Walt's and David Billingsly's and mine I could chalk it up to poor or overly aesthetics focused designs. If they were losing to bombers or big gun fighters that would be the point of torpedoes and big guns, but it's winning using nothing but the 1 tile no crew fit behind armor guns.

TLDR: Overpowered fighters being able to beat overpowered mass driver kites does not make mass driver kites not overpowered.

    Atarlost It is possible to change BH in a way that if a ship is attacked all other ships will defend it even if they have no vision on the attacker, it is also possible to make small fleets of ships, its just that i have not focus on BH much as its going to change soon, anyway.
    Right now BH has mostly aesthetics ships, testing anything against them is not a good way to measure something,
    even AI vs AI in creative mode is not a good way to test ships, especially fighters since there is no AI designed for them.

    Any ship that is fast enough can beat those two ships, doesn't matter if it is a vanilla ship or a fighter made with the mod because at that amount of accelerators it take ages to reload and the DPS drops drastically.

    Mass Drive is only overpowered against ships that are slow and has bad defense, same thing happens with vanilla missiles, against a slow ship that has no flak or pd.

    I agree that the fighter weapons are a bit overpowered, i have to do them like that. My idea of fighter is that they should shoot with this powerful weapons for a small amount of time before needing to wait a a few second to recharge, a that point they should focus on dodging incoming fire or running away until the weapons are totally charged. Because there is no AI that support that, i had to make them use less energy so they can shoot constantly instead of sitting there and be an easy target.

    But even so, these fighters are not all powerfull and they have many counters, vanilla shields is the most notable one because they have tons of regeneration.
    I made this fighter to show you what i mean:

    image https://forum.cosmoteer.net/assets/images/765-eWZWqM8ScP47S38w.png

    If you make them fight you will see that the dps is not enough to take down the shields.
    This other fighter can also destroy it with its alpha strike:

    image https://forum.cosmoteer.net/assets/images/765-vcVCqhSkgYlMkqnK.png

    Bombers has the ability to deal a massive amount of damage in a second, they advantage is that they usually can get away without taking much damage while fighters that need to stay for several seconds will lost several of them.

    I can probably nerf fighters weapons a little bit, but not as much as not been overpower, until there is an AI specifically made for them or nobody will use them.

      So i love this mod and i have created a lot of different ships and stations with it, and i have an Idea/Request.

      Idea/Request: Allow Teleporters to teleport Batteries into Energy Storages.
      i have created a "Convoy-ish" style fleet with a bunch of Cannon Ships with Ammo Storages but no factories.
      and 1 or 2 supply ships with Teleporters and Ammo Factories but little offense.
      Ive also done the same thing with Missiles and i want to try the same thing with Energy.

      Plus it could be used for a cool challenge where you have your main ship/ships with ONLY energy storage's and no reactors.
      And then you have a station with Reactors and Teleporters, So you have to stay near and protect your station and the distance you can travel outside its teleporter range is determined by your ship's energy storage.
      You could have supply ships with LARGE energy storage and a teleporter to supply your ships when your out of the range of your station

      I hope you consider my idea, i would REALLY appreciate it if you did add the idea

        WaffleGames There is no Hellbringer Cannons in my mod so it must be some other mod you have installed.

        Teleporting to Energy storages could be nice, i will try it.

          Thanks!

          Also the Hellbringer cannons was indeed from another mod, i forgot it was......whoops XD

            @Kroom hello, an idea of when we'll have reskinned med and large reactors ?

            Tyaestysu I will probably do it, but no idea when.

              I've been playing again fairly regularly, and I keep running into areas where there aren't quite any parts that function the way that I'm hoping they do. I normally tend to use the AbH 1x1 fusion reactor for small craft, but I would love to be able to get a 1X2 reactor with reasonable stats. Reasonable in this case being "1/3 the performance and storage of a vanilla 2X2 reactor" If the 1X1 Kroom Reactor's stats are already somewhere in that range, then midway between the 1X1 Kroom and the 2X2 Vanilla.

              Other than that, your mod continues to redefine the low-tier game and is perfect for adding that little touch to mid-tier and larger craft. Vulcan Blasters are the perfect fighter-scale weapon to slap across the port and starboard sides of escorts and pocket battleships. They're great for occupying enemy shields if you have something else that can come in and break them.

              Finally, RCS blocks. You, sir, are a monster and a genius. I'm able to make microfighters that can pace my big ships with nothing more than a single 1X2 Vector Thruster. My last game had me keeping microfighters around to pick at HP on larger ships until my secondary escort craft were being replaced with 500k-1M shield knockers and missile ships.

              Currently, I am behaving and not making alpha-strike torpedo bombers and a teleporter-enabled station to feed them. I haven't done the battles yet, but I'm guessing that you can field 3-5 50K bomber craft and a single 100K tank (probably with a penetration weapon and anti-missile defense and little else) and wipe the floor with everything up to Tier 4. But, the temptation is there.

              Your work is wonderful, as always.

                12 days later

                hi Kroom, i wondered if you could do different colored type of thrusters?

                  a suggestion could you please create a roof mounted phaser and a large version one for Version 14.14c possibly

                    8 days later

                    I've been having an issue where my ships won't go back onto the landing pad, is this a normal bug or am I doing it wrong?

                      driller24 what do you mean? do you have collision avoidance off?

                        Kroom turns out that was the problem, thanks!

                          BlackHole-Pine i said no offence for a reason. and i figured out how to use it so its cool either way

                            Kroom i figured it out... my bad.
                            i didnt mean any offence from that

                              12 days later

                              how do I install thy mod
                              it looks fun to use

                                acidcave like every other mod

                                  its my first time

                                    acidcave google it

                                      I don't have google