Dalas120 On 0.14.5, 1 PD can shoot down nearly 2 HE launchers, provided those launchers are >~100 away (if side-fired) or >~175 away (if forward-fired) - and 0.14.5 PD costs less than 1/3 of 0.14.4 PD because it uses drastically less power. That's a staggering increase in PD lethality, and might change PD from an occasionally-useful afterthought (0.14.4) into a de-facto missile range nerf that hits side-fire missile barges especially hard.
Okay, but that all seems fairly easily tuneable to me. If PD in 0.14.5 is too powerful then I can make them do less damage, use more power, and/or have longer lock-on time, but in principle they still seem less broken than 0.14.4 PD.
Dalas120 In the interest of speed then, here's a very specific suggestion:
Okay, so basically I like this idea a lot and think it would definitely be an improvement over 0.14.4. I have no problem with allowing PD to shoot at and damage ships, I think that's less weird than 0.14.4 where for some unknown reason they can't. I also like how it makes PD more useful instead of trying to nerf PD into near-non-existence like in my prototypes. I still want PD to remain primarily a defensive system, by which I mean I want more defensive use-cases (shooting down missiles, protecting flanks) than offensive use cases (projecting raw firepower), though if it still has some offensive uses (dogfights between small ships, or cheap firepower on small/fast ships that can get in close) I'm okay with that.
As an aside, I question whether they should be able to be given specific targets, both because they are supposedly "automated", but more importantly because, if given a manual target they will then prefer to shoot at that instead of at missiles, which probably isn't what the player wants. At the very least, they should probably ignore any ship-wide focus-fire targets and instead only be manually targetable if the PD is specifically selected. Or maybe they should ignore any manual targets when there are missiles to shoot at, but that could be confusing/frustrating to the player.
My main concern with this idea is, does it solve the original balance problems that PD have in 0.14.4? Does it make missiles/PD sufficiently less binary?
Also, if this idea were implemented, I would start questioning the need for a separate flak defense, which I still have somewhat ambivalent feelings about
Dalas120 I think it would be really cool if PD could debuff the enemy instead of dealing direct damage - something like a "molten" effect that makes parts more vulnerable to damage, that stacks very high so it's more effective vs armor. In general I think that buff/debuff supportive weapons would be good to have. But this probably wouldn't make sense to do for 0.14.5, because it would be a whole new mechanic in an update that's already huge.
I'm all for more support weapons, though I don't really feel like PD is a good match for that.
Dalas120 If flak automatically starts shooting at an enemy ship (because there are no projectiles), it won't automatically start firing on projectiles again. Is this a bug?
Not really a bug, more just an oversight because that's how weapons work in general -- they won't switch targets unless their current target is destroyed or goes out of sight, or they are given a manual target.
In general, I think that letting flak shoot at ships creates some (maybe solvable) problems such as the above, but also in that if you focus-fire your ship on an enemy part, then your flak will obey that focus fire instead of shooting at enemy projectiles. Perhaps flak should ignore any ship-wide focus-fire commands and only be able to be given targets when the flak is specifically selected. Though I wonder whether I should just remove flak's offensive abilities entirely.
Dalas120 Drastically boost the flak turret's turn speed (though it would feel odd for a big turret to turn that quickly)
This would be my preferred solution, but I tried this and yeah, it was definitely weird turning so fast. Though maybe it will be less weird if the final sprites looked less heavy.
samepage Increase the range from 100 to 150, but add a damage fall off so they deal less damage when the target is too far. Basically, making them like space shotgun. So they can one shot missiles and dealing significant damage at close range, but not too powerful at longer distance.
I think their damage would fall off naturally due to their random spread, probably no need to add an artificial falloff.
samepage Making them 3 x 3 instead of 3 x 4. They are not some kind of super weapon. No reason to make them so hard to use.
I think I agree with this.
Also, I'm thinking about also having a smaller 2x2 or 2x3 flak as well.
My only concern with 2x2 or 3x3 flak is that is exactly the same size as a 2x2 shield generator, and a larger shield generator (assuming I add one) will probably be 3x3. I generally like to mix up part sizes because I think it makes ship design more interesting.