mah_dispenser kroom can i make a sujestion?
nothing much... something similar to the heavy turrets but on a 2x2 frame... or some roof point defense
I think if I were in his place I think I'd turn the roof flak into a dual purpose gun more like Walt's flak for roof mounted PD. That's bigger than you're asking, but it's large and difficult enough to place to be comparable to Walt's flak and doesn't seem to be doing very well as a pure anti-fighter weapon.
mah_dispenser For the next update i want to make a rebalance of most weapons on the mod then i want to do the conversion of the mod to work with the steam release and after that i will think to add more parts. I would like to have something similar to a roof PD but only if i can make it in a way that dont replace the vanilla PD.
kwhwwymwn Factories is something that I do not want in fighters, if it were for me I would make them even bigger than vanilla (4x4 or even 5x5) 
I like the idea of EMP or nukes for fighters (i will have to find a way to make them not OP or a replacement of the vanilla ones). The frigate shields and capital roof laser turrets is something i would like to add at some point.
Kroom Missile Factories on fighters are already kind of meh due to labor requirements. Making them any bigger would make them useless on capital ships even if you didn't mind breaking all vanilla designs.
I don't think you'll be able to get Cannon Factories off of fighters except by making cannons obsolete with an energy weapon that starts fires. An auto-feeding storage might help, but would probably get more use buffering guns on capital ships while fighters still used factories.
Fighter nukes are probably unavoidably overpowered. Torpedoes fill the same niche and are already quite strong. I'm not sure about EMP. I don't think I'd use them because it would require redesigning all of my carriers to fit a EMP factory, though they'd be useful against enemies with thorough vanilla shield coverage.
I've tried to make factories on fighters work because torpedoes are very good, but the closest I've gotten is this:
And it just doesn't work. The torpedoes give great burst damage against unarmored components, but the sustained damage to cut through the armor first just isn't there. I've done better with a bunch of tachyon guns for cutting through armor and one or two torpedoes for making a mess inside and the tachyon guns just don't fit with a missile factory in the 9x9 square that actually fits nicely on a landing pad.
Well, that's not entirely true. I've found this makes a good fire support ship early on, but while it's a fighter in that it fits on a landing pad and has no FTL of its own, it uses full size missile launchers because its job requires the range.
The only place I'm really happy with fighter scale missile launchers fed directly by a factory is on smallish starships that are just a bit too narrow to have two turrets, leaving an otherwise useless empty spot that can be made 3x5 by moving some crew quarters around. And that's not because they're good, but because they're anything remotely useful that fits.
If fighter missile launchers were made to only reload from teleporters and landing pads it would wreck a bunch of my starships but no fighters that aren't already failures. If that could only be done by removing the doors it would also wreck a bunch of my fighters that don't have a factory, but do require crew to climb over missiles or torpedoes to reach some of the engines.
Atarlost this might be why we have a tournament.
do you have an discord related to the mod ?
Atarlost I agree that factories on fighters aren't good, i usually prefer to use the space and money to add more missiles or torpedoes for a better alpha strike. I have no plans to modify vanilla parts, aside for parts that give buffs, like the targeting terminals.
I'm not sure how i feel about cannons on fighters, i don't see them as very useful unless used for ramming less agile ships. For EMP missiles i was thinking in something smaller than vanilla, like a fighter vs fighter emp missile.
Friendly_hoovy No, i don't feel that the mod deserves one yet.
Kroom In my PvE experience ramming less agile ships is most of what fighters do. Or circling them while a larger, more distant ship shoots them in the back when it passes if they choose to try to focus on the fighter.
I don't think a fighter vs fighter EMP missile would be useful because fighters always use phase shields and phase shields are buffered. Sustained energy drain as from electrobolts can mess up their energy budget, but I don't think single use missiles would accomplish much compared to just using normal missiles to go after shield HP.
Atarlost I don't think a fighter vs fighter EMP missile would be useful because fighters always use phase shields and phase shields are buffered. Sustained energy drain as from electrobolts can mess up their energy budget, but I don't think single use missiles would accomplish much compared to just using normal missiles to go after shield HP.
in a fighter duel, normal missiles and torpedoes arent very useful, if you use them at the start of the fight they only damage the shield (and generally not enough to take it down) and if you wait to bring down the shield to use them, it's often too late
they are "good" to do damages in a burst, but not for dps
an EMP torpedoes would be better for taking down shields, and would allows the missiles that follow them to do actual damages
i think i found a bug with the torpedo's range
it should be the same than the missiles (270 meters) but they disappear too soon
kwhwwymwn You're thinking about vanilla shields. Phase shields don't drop when they lose power, they just don't regenerate.
Torpedoes are useless because they don't track. They can hit a target a few meters away, which is why in PvE for 4 out of the 5 levels of systems the job of fighters is to ram or nearly ram larger ships and put torpedoes into their unarmored bits. large budget Kroom PvP could also include ships large and slow enough for that tactic to be useful, but I will be shocked if anyone makes them work in a fighter tournament.
kwhwwymwn I think that the problem is that torpedos dont have acceleration, i will try adding a bit and see what happen.
Atarlost EMP missiles are very powerful against fighters as usually only one vanilla missile is enough to completely disable them for several seconds, that's why i think it could be useful to have one, smaller than vanilla, to use as a fighter vs fighter weapon.
Kroom EMP missiles are very powerful against fighters as usually only one vanilla missile is enough to completely disable them for several seconds, that's why i think it could be useful to have one, smaller than vanilla, to use as a fighter vs fighter weapon.
Vanilla EMP missiles are effective because they fire another missile as soon as the fighter starts to re-power and stun lock it, but kwhwwymwn is talking about shield breaking. Something like this takes 11 full size EMP missiles to get one of the shields down (not all missiles to the same shield because it spins out of control once the cockpit is depowered so performance will vary). With the shield linker powered down before the test it still took 5 EMP missiles to drop one of the shields. It takes 5 missile racks to completely drop the shields hitting where they overlap, or 4 is the linker is shut down.
A less capable EMP missile that was also single shot and thus unable to stun lock does not seem like it would be competitive with the existing fighter missiles. Not giving any regen time will reduce the numbers of missiles a bit, or probably quite a lot in the case of an active linker, but they'll take quite a few to shieldbreak if the guns are struggling and be less versatile.
You can try making it if you want. Underpowered options don't much effect game balance. I just don't think it's going to achieve what you hope and trying to make it do so might negatively effect game balance (eg. removing the HP buffer on phase shields might cause problems on fighters with tight haulage budgets).
Kroom It would be a better idea to add one that depletes phase shields rather than energy, because we already have vanilla emp missles, so there would be no point in making another vanilla-like emp missle. Also, if you add a missle that depletes phase shields, it will be very usefull against people that spam phase shields and shield linkers.
i am missing some twin weapons and turrets:
plasma, ion pulse, tachyon and vulcan aren't available as such.
also a 1x1 cockpit with a path to the front would make many slender ship designs possible that currently aren't.
all else is awesome!
ah, ok, that explains.
