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I'd bet that torpedoes have been suggested before, but the search function isn't working for me so I don't know for sure. I don't see them on the Trello.


Grab a coffee, because this is a long one.

In my opinion, torpedoes are such an ubiquitous sci-fi staple that they can't be ignored. They're just too cool. But beyond that, I think they could fill a unique and interesting role from a balance design standpoint. They would be another high-alpha weapon like the railgun, but with much more delayed damage. "But missiles already fill that role!" Nah, man. I mean HIGH ALPHA.

As defined by the very cool sci-fi concept resource website projectrho, the difference between a missile and a torpedo is that a missile has better acceleration and top speed than the typical target, whereas a torpedo has similar acceleration and top speed as the target. I propose implementing them with that concept in mind. Torpedos would be slow, easier to dodge than missiles, but a longer flight time and with a much more powerful punch.


CRUDE MOCKUP (door positions included)
image https://i.imgur.com/wrZuhu0.png

The part could be 2x5 tiles. Each torpedo requires 16 missile parts and 8 power. The power represents the warhead, which is built first with 4 missile parts followed by 8 power. Loading should take a lot of crew and a lot of time. With a total of 24 items carried, the best reload rate would be >10 seconds, I think. The torpedo takes up most of the room, and 2 parts worth of torpedo get shoved out to stick out of the tube. There is space at the rear of the part for two crew members to man stations. Doors can be placed on the rearmost two tiles of the room, but not on the sides, only the rear.


HOW TORPEDOES MIGHT WORK:
The basics: high alpha damage, long range, long reload time, hard to hit with.

•Torpedoes would be unguided on launch. When they get within PD range of any enemy ship, they begin tracking the target and maneuvering. In this way, a torpedo might be dodged entirely by a reasonably quick ship. If the target goes outside of the torpedo's guidance range, it becomes dumb again, traveling on at last guided heading. Torpedoes will track any enemy ship that enters their guidance range.

•Since torpedoes are unguided at launch, they would have to be fired directly at the enemy. So typically, they would need to be placed on forward surface area. If a player wanted to launch torpedoes tubes on their sides, they would need to rotate to launch. No indirect-firing torpedoes! (A broadsider might want to place a few of these to produce a nice spread of torpedoes when it brings a side to bear.)

•While initially unguided, they do at least correct to an intercept course on launch. The torpedo would be kicked out of the tube, instantly swivel to an intercept course within a certain degrees limit, then engage thruster. Without this feature, the torpedo would rarely actually fire, since the game wouldn't decide to launch unless the tube was lined up on a direct intercept course (the way railguns behave). The part could have a firing cone of about 45 degrees.

•On impact, a torpedo explodes with similar damage and area as a reactor detonation.

•If a torpedo tube is destroyed with the warhead in it (partially loaded), it would detonate as powerfully as a reactor.

•The torpedo travels slowly, slower than a large cannon shot. Easily dodged and outrun by fast ships. Difficult for large ships to dodge.

•Long range. They can be fired at the same range as a railgun, or at least the same range as missiles. However, because of increased likelihood of missing due to slow travel velocity, torpedoes would have an effective range similar to lasers.

•The torpedo could have a flight time of about 20 seconds.

•PDs can shoot down a torpedo, but will need to shoot it a lot. Maybe it would typically require the fire of two or even three PDs to destroy a torpedo before impact if it is on the fastest approach. A single PD might be able to shoot down a torpedo, but only if you lead the torpedo on a chase and give the PD time to shoot, be recharged, and shoot some more. However, when a torpedo is destroyed, it detonates, so destroy it beyond the range of its AOE.

•If a torpedo is still in flight, the tube cannot fire again until the previous expires or detonates. In this way, you can only take advantage of the best reload rate of torpedoes if your shots hit (or if they are shot down by PDs, which makes dodging torpedoes even more attractive). This punishes misses.

•The torpedo tube is harder to shield than most parts. It has only a 2-wide surface area itself, but since it is 5 tiles long and loaded from the rear, you can't shield it from directly behind. So it might require using some surface area if you want to shield it well. (And if they have a big explosion when destroyed with a warhead in the tube, you definitely want to shield it well.)

•Does this kind of replace the 'under consideration' Nuclear Missile? I feel like Walt hasn't confirmed that as 'planned' because it might be OP, but torpedoes as I have described them would have enough drawbacks. Maybe replace that and call these nuclear torpedoes?


TACTICAL USAGE:
•Equip a cloaking ship with torpedoes and surprise the enemy with buttsecks!
•Fire at close range to ensure hits, but not too close - torpedo detonations, whether triggered by impact or PDs, will harm the launching ship as well!
•Fire manually from beyond visual range and hope for a hit.
•Time the launch of a salvo of missiles to coincide with the arrival of your torpedoes to spoof enemy PDs.
•Use multiple spaced torpedo tubes to launch a spread that ensures some will achieve tracking.
•Hold fire on your torpedoes until you see a good opportunity to launch.

(sellout initiated)
WH40K MOD GOT TORPS 😉

Tobi-wan_Kenobi Pretty Nice Concept! I think this Could be a pretty nice idea.

Tobi-wan_Kenobi The new NWADM Mod has got a nuclear torpedo (i have used it, it's a test version) we do not know when trhe mod will be out but i'm sure you will like it with the 3x5 torpedo goodness

Tobi-wan_Kenobi WH40k mod has torps, 14 on 14 with a ram attached on it... And with a press of a button you unlish death on your heretics!

Thanks for the tip on the WH40K mod guys. I might give that a try, if only to see how that mod does it. I don't typically use mods though. When I build a ship I want to be able to share it with anyone - not only people who have certain mods.

Tobi-wan_Kenobi well you could always say: "yo guys I got this cool new ship, but it need that mod" and boom you can share it with everyone :p

    Tobi-wan_Kenobi

    •Long range. They can be fired at the same range as a railgun, or at least the same range as missiles. However, because of increased likelihood of missing due to slow travel velocity, torpedoes would have an effective range similar to lasers.

    I´m for at least double (maybe triple?) rail range, that will balance very low speed, and countering by dodging.
    and in cae torpedo miss its target, it will soon gat to far away to track again and disappear in space.
    Torpedo shoot might have be seen on minimap I suppose, but without it, there will no more straight forward movement with confident, more maneuvers will happen then.

    Next one, plaers should have the ability to order torpedo launch

    If a torpedo is still in flight, the tube cannot fire again until the previous expires or detonates. In this way, you can only take advantage of the best reload rate of torpedoes if your shots hit (or if they are shot down by PDs, which makes dodging torpedoes even more attractive). This punishes misses.

    No artificial time limits, 1 door, enough high number of parts and fire rate will be 1 torpedo in air, good build will differ from bad by slightly higher fire rate, for me max 3 torpedos/minute in speed 1 seem high be enough fire rate to have it balanced.

    Does this kind of replace the 'under consideration' Nuclear Missile? I feel like Walt hasn't confirmed that as 'planned' because it might be OP, but torpedoes as I have described them would have enough drawbacks. Maybe replace that and call these nuclear torpedoes?

    Great, torpedo you suggested I like, and nuclear missiles are, just , awkward idea.

    Tobi-wan_Kenobi I really like this idea, it would be really fun to play with!

    I don't think they should be guided at all; other wise it would just be a big, slow missile. It should be more like WWII torpedos where they move in a straight line. If my plan is implemented, they should be faster that your idea of a torpedo.

    As far as realism goes: projectrho is for scifi writers and is at best undergraduate university level.
    In space there is no difference between torpedoes and missile other than perhaps the size of their warhead (and the term used). The difference is only on Earth between the ocean and in the air.

    I certainly would like more parts in vanilla, but each new thing has to add new feature application because they also serve to guide modders. The feature I want with torpedoes is their ability to acquire a target by themselves especially when the target got destroyed. Btw. I already asked for this feature months ago so it actually might come soon.

    Hi Tobi-wan_Kenobi

    I enjoyed my coffee thanks.

    "Torpedoes are too cool not to have" - Totally agree.

    I made a post not long ago detailing some ideas for how torpedoes could work, and for the most part, our basic ideas are very similar; Big, slow, partly guided projectiles that are armoured against PD and can do serious damage to even big ships. I love the mock-up you made and having energy bars "fill-up" a torpedo is a great idea too.

    Torpedoes vs Shields
    I like the fact that you've highlighted the similarities between Torpedoes and Railguns, they're both long range, high alpha weapons and IMO Torpedoes have more in common tactically, with railguns than with missiles. So to make Torpedoes really distinct I'd like them to find a role that no other weapon fills. Railguns are the long-range ship killers, but what they're not so good at is getting past shields. If Torpedoes could fill this role, it would make them very frightening to big ships indeed.

    Given a large enough AOE, a Torpedo explosion could reach a target even beyond the range of its shield, damaging and destroying edge components and even the shields themselves. Another way a Torpedo could 'get past shields' would be to simply allow them to fly through shields undamaged (talked about a shield phasing device I described in my post).

    Torpedoes and guidance
    I really like your idea to have Torpedoes 'target' something only after a delay. Of course, Red October taught us that this is a thing because otherwise, Torpedoes might target the ship that launched them. I'm not sure how a Torpedo would decide what to target in cosmoteer, would it be the nearest ship? or the biggest ship within a certain range? or the biggest 'heat signature' (most powerful engines), or whatever target is in front of them when they activate? something else?

      Amazing_Goob I don't think they should be guided at all; otherwise, it would just be a big, slow missile. It should be more like WWII torpedos where they move in a straight line. If my plan is implemented, they should be faster than your idea of a torpedo.

      Torpedoes are much bigger and slower than missiles and will always be, and as such smaller ships should usually be able to outmanoeuvre them. However, that slower speed and self targetting ability gives them a much longer range, and even the ability to sneak up on targets beyond sensor range, switching to attack speed when they get close enough for a kill.

      Torpedoes are big ship killers, and torpedoes are resistant to most countermeasure. But, their impact should be devasting enough to frighten even the toughest targets.

      The Tigerfish torpedo
      " Wire guidance permits a torpedo to be launched on-first-warning, i.e. when a target is first detected at long range. This permits the torpedo the time needed to close the range while target course and speed is being updated by the submarine's superior sensors and transmitted 'down-the-wire'. The torpedo can also be reassigned to another target or recalled. Typically, wire-guided torpedoes initially run at low speed (in order to maximize their range and to minimize their self-generated noise) while they close the range (the approach speed) and speed up during the attack phase (the attack speed). "

      You have a point about the fire and forget type of torpedo though, and there are examples of shorter range, more powerful torpedoes too:

      "When HMS Conqueror sank the ARA General Belgrano during the 1982 Falklands war she used the "point and shoot" 21" Mark VIII torpedoes rather than her Tigerfish. The Mark VIII had no homing system but, despite the design being over 50 years old at the time, was far more reliable and carried a greater high-explosive payload."

      Obviously different types of Torpedoes can fill multiple roles, so I think a system that allows the designer or captain to customize torpedo load-outs would be very interesting.

      Elethio I agree with every word you said.

      Elethio But, you could have a "wire room" behind the torpedo launcher which give s it guidance capability.

      The thing about Torpedos and Missiles is that they have a way better Thrust to Mass Ratio then any Ship. (At least in RL) So trying to Dodge them or hoping that they miss would end in the same result. You get hit anyway. The only thing that helps is what we see in the game, shooting them with Guns.

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