A discussion that used to be about capacitors

Walt

Dalas120 Unrelated suggestion: maybe add a "rotate" command in addition to the move and attack/formation command buttons planned on the trello, mostly to help players aim ion beams and railguns. Rotate could be used to face the enemy ship, an enemy part, or a fixed direction. Issuing move or attack commands would not cancel the rotate, rather the ship would try to move towards the commanded point while still facing the rotate target. But setting a fixed rotation angle with the command handles on the move or attack command would cancel the rotate command. Rotate could possibly also adjust for aiming off-center spinal weapons, but it would need to be on an option.

I've already added a rotate command for the next update, though it's really just an easier way to change the rotation of the current command and does not keep the ship facing a particular point. This works fine for the attack command since rotations are always relative to the enemy, though it does mean if you issue a move command you'll lose the rotation. (I also added a "strafe" command which is like move but keep current rotation.) Let's see how well it works in practice.

Dalas120

Walt Ideally there would be away to face a target without worrying about your position. So you could keep an ion bean or railgun aimed at the enemy while both ships are moving around.

Right now it's very clumsy to constantly adjust the angle, and it still doesn't work very well. Since ships are constantly moving around, setting a fixed angle (instead of a fixed target) means that the target point is constantly moving around and is very difficult to reliably aim.

Basically any way to face an enemy part would be huge. Right now you can only face the enemy center or a specific enemy-relative angle, but neither is very useful for spinal weapons.

SpaceCat

Walt

Now this thread is about ship orders/movement also? confused

anyway what i have to say about this is:

Toggle: "collison avoidance", "Rotate only" and "Strafe" would make more sense then having to activate it every time. (especially strafe for omnidirectional ships - (or "frisbee ships as murgle calls them")).
Or maybe have BOTH options: toggle and one-shot for these commands.

😉

Walt

Dalas120 Right now it's very clumsy to constantly adjust the angle, and it still doesn't work very well.

While the new rotate command won't mean you don't have to keep adjusting the angle, it does make adjusting it much easier. It's a pretty massive improvement over having to adjust the rotation handles.

I hear you on wanting to be able to face a specific moving target. That would probably be a huge departure to the way the code currently works, though, plus there are some design questions that'd need to get resolved (i.e., under what circumstances does the rotation target get kept or canceled when issuing a new command to your ship?), so probably not happening anytime soon.

Dalas120

Walt Could it be possible to issue an attack order without a position, like a "turret mode." Aside from being cool for space stations, it would help a lot with the spinal weapon problems, make attacking a little more smooth, and (presumably) wouldn't take a lot of extra programming

Lafiel

Walt plus there are some design questions that'd need to get
resolved (i.e., under what circumstances does the rotation target get
kept or canceled when issuing a new command to your ship?)

Only keep it if rotation is fast enough to keep up with the target otherwise do anything else (doesn't matter what).

This is turning out into a design and tactics cheating discussion.

nop

Dalas120 I worry that if small railguns shoot too quickly they'd start to feel like spinal cannons.

Factors like range, shot velocity, and being able to focus fire differentiate. They're no more similar than standard vs. large cannons. Even if they were just spinal large cannons, it would be better than the peashooters they are now.

SpaceCat

Dalas120 without a position

you mean without an actual enemy target?

Walt

Dalas120 Could it be possible to issue an attack order without a position, like a "turret mode." Aside from being cool for space stations, it would help a lot with the spinal weapon problems, make attacking a little more smooth, and (presumably) wouldn't take a lot of extra programming

It's certainly technically feasible, though I don't really see how it'd be useful except in very niche cases.

Dalas120

SpaceCat With an enemy target, but it wouldn't care where your ship is as long as it's facing the correct enemy-relative angle. Right now it'll always try to hold a position, not just an angle. When you're frequently changing attack targets it gets in the way a lot

nop

Dalas120 Put forward/reverse thrusters on a control group, power them off.

SpaceCat

Dalas120

Ok like a "stand ground but rotate" attack order ?

I suggested that already some time ago.

Dalas120

nop Wouldn't that slow down your turn rate by a lot?

Dalas120

SpaceCat Yeah pretty much, but if the ship moved it wouldn't try and regain it's old position

nop

Dalas120 depends on where your thrusters are. You might omit the thrusters with the most leverage from the control group to limit forward/reverse speed. If you're designing a ship to work as a turret, design accordingly.

SpaceCat

Dalas120 i actually like that ships try to regain their position ...

Dalas120

nop Reverse only thrusters is a really clever idea, I'll give that a try. I definitely need to practice more turning thrusters off. But if possible, when turning I would still want to avoid disabling thrusters because that will hurt turn speed a lot. I'm not really worried about dedicated turret ships (is there ever a time they're practical?), but I noticed this problem a lot with my spinal weapon ships when fighting swarms.

Walt Yeah, you're right. I was thinking of it as a watered down version of the ability to have enemy-relative facing with grid-relative movement (which would definitely be very, very useful). But aside from making a turret (if for some reason you wanted to), having enemy-relative facing and ignoring all movement would probably be useless most of the time. The only time I would use it is if I was fighting swarms and wanted to turn as fast as possible.

(nice discussion name change btw)

nop

Another trick: leave only the reverse thrusters on and set ramming distance. Ship will rotate to face, using the appropriate reverse thrusters, but since your forward thrusters are powered off, it will only back off slightly. Build forward thrusters in the center and reverse thrusters with turning leverage.

Equalizer

Walt Any possibility of having the option to order a ship to set its rotation such that a selected fixed mount weapon (ion beam / railgun) is lined up with its target?

Walt

Dalas120 I was thinking of it as a watered down version of the ability to have enemy-relative facing with grid-relative movement (which would definitely be very, very useful).

Perhaps a way to change the location of an attack command just by clicking on a point in space, and it'll auto-calculate the new attack angle & radius? That's not quite what you're talking about because it'd still be enemy-relative, but it'd be a lot more convenient than having to drag the command handle.