The first true carrier capable of rebuilding 6 fighters!

dieaready

Teg You still can squeeze in more missiles at the back inner wall. Never enough missiles 😛

Teg

dieaready This is YOUR fault! Infecting Walt with your dark anti PD magic! Begone foul witch! Begone I say!

Really though, missiles are dumb atm. I haven't seen many ships from you lately. Got anything in the works?

Teg

dieaready I built that abomination out of modules in 2 minutes. It can probably kill anything I've ever built. No Bueno.

dieaready

Teg Been busy with RL, missiles were useless previously, now they are at least useful on missile boats. IMO Walt should have increased the range on ion beams to help close the difference to the missile kites. ATM if you want to take out missile boats you'll need to run interceptors, which I've been designing.

image https://i.imgur.com/R0sO0HT.png

image https://i.imgur.com/n497LCJ.png

image https://i.imgur.com/SVVq2om.png

Also if you want missile cheese here is one not very good one:

image https://i.imgur.com/czEkqnG.png

Hypertion

more than half of them died to the mega boats, despite the hilariously derpy flying the AI made them do. all 4 of them were obsessed with one in the back, one flying smack into the middle of the munchies...

still the missile output on those little things left a mess..

then the Mothership, which was also flying at max derpyness and lagging way behind came up..

the one it enguaged died in the first barrage. at that point, 1 pac man remained that had little damage having flown off to chase the rear end of a otherwise dead boat, and one that was half dead already and still fighting the lone surviving mega boat.

after that the last pac man was annilated by a swarm of missiles bigger than it was.

i did it again and managed to get a good recording with fraps... i will get that up soon.

i was one of the few people who tryed to argue against a missile buff >< i think that was even of my first posts....

they were crazy before now its just insane.

xPLAYn

Teg i'm back. Also, Trump and ''Cheina'' were supposed to be stupid. The Super Destroyer was built before the recent update. It's designed to still be able to fire even if you gut it from the back, which is its weak spot.

Teg

dieaready I don't get this missiles weren't good argument. If you spam the same one weapon that has its own special counter that no other weapon gets and it can't kill a well protected ship its useless? Missiles were fantastic at providing additional dps via side mounted launchers after the enemies PD has been taken out with good driving and/or well balanced weaponry.
Missile boats SHOULD be useless against PD, why would it be any other way?

Hypertion

i did a tiny mod pre update that increased ion attack range to the same distance as missiles, yet it barely made them useful in swarm spam. honestly ions are just weak.

dieaready

Teg The issue was that PD was taking out missiles it was not aiming at and PD heavily counters missiles so much that the cost balance was thrown way off to the extent that with just a few PD each side on a smallish ship you'll need a much larger and much more expensive ship to get missiles past it. Right now it seems a lot more balanced and people would have to focus more on having frontal PD so it also helps to nerf the heavy cannonwalls. In any case, Walt only fixed the PD accuracy (apparently the targeting algorithm was slightly broken), increased the energy cost (PD mounted in hard to reach places can be run out of energy) and I suspect a slight decrease to the spread of PD.

IMO the biggest change was the missile explosion radius and the nerf to cannons and ion beam range. Personally I don't see any issue with the way missiles are now, since if you want to make a heavily armed/armoured ship you'll have to sacrifice speed, so you'll obviously lose to kites. All the changes that were made only means that now kites have a better chance of actually doing damage and killing off the slow ships rather than just plinking away with no results.

Missiles are countered by PD (heavily) and exterior shields, which IMO is good enough. Just because it is different from the usual cannon spam doesn't mean it is bad.

Teg

dieaready Your best "intercepter" can't kill my kiter at 80k less. It's crazy!
image https://i.imgur.com/U44sTaS.png

Teg

dieaready I'm all for nerfing cannons, imo fire rate and accuracy should be reduced, 2 crew to standard cannons and 4 to large, and maybe factories should use more energy to give ions and lasers a chance. Missiles and PD should be restored to pre 12.10

Edit: Compare Ion to Standard Cannons cost wise. Then Missiles.
Ion: 10k, 1 reactor 15k, requires 6 crew 6.5k, total 31.5k
Cannons: 4 cannons 8k, 2 factories 10k, requires 12 crew 13k, total 31k, (virtually no energy is required, base reactor will power it all)
Now go test 4 cannons vs 1 ion and that is why cannons are op.
Missiles: 12k factory 15k, crew 13k, total 40k, (again no energy) but you stay totally out of range...

Hypertion

Also this.

to be honest, i was using missile kites to kill everything before the update.

Teg

Hypertion :d It's sad to see my beloved Pakemons fall. Thanks for recording it!

dieaready

Teg Yeah, ions and lasers still needs tweaking. Those are just RP interceptors that I've been working on to counter ions and misc. Here are a couple of interceptors that can catch missile kites, but it seems like there are some issues with AI still as even though they have a lot more thrust, they are not getting close enough for my liking.

image https://i.imgur.com/CwjgLos.png

image https://i.imgur.com/tM8sDyK.png

They win most of the time, barring lucky missile strikes. Also, explosions work funny at these kind of speeds and fires rarely occur.

Jabenyezaa

lol like 200 posts come out when im gone lol but yea carriers are a very interesting topic because they are so unique and different startgeies

Hypertion

image https://i.imgur.com/0Zn7ZKE.png

for the lulz

Teg

dieaready This is what I don't get, why should we have to build dedicated interceptors that are totally useless for everything else except stopping one type of ship? My missile kiter is still going to be useful whatever it fights.
Just think of tournaments, it will just be rock paper scissors every match, interceptor beats kiter, kiter beats normal ship, normal ship beats interceptor. It will make for a terrible game. Make a mod to have your own version if you'd like, but imo the current balance is toxic for the game.

Edit: I just had a thought, what about dramatically increasing missile component weight to stop kiters?

xPLAYn

Also, there actually are not too many reactors. If you look closely at the doors and their placement, you will notice how many sections are purposefully blocked off. This is because I've noticed that sometimes the crew will travel too far away from their home bed, especially on big ships, and will therefore be too far away to deal with the current problems. The compartment making means the crew stay close to their home beds, increasing productivity by a good margin. Each small section of the ship is capable of running on its own, meaning the whole ship will go down fighting.

Teg

xPLAYn As you mentioned yourself, I'm pretty good at building ships and I'm saying you have way too many reactors because you do. This ship can destroy your super destroyer so easily (without "super armor") because of your reactor count and placement.
image https://i.imgur.com/HmticZ7.png

Yes, I noticed that you have modules (blocked off areas). The 2nd ship I built had modules, I use them very effectively in almost all my builds. I mentioned the techniques I use to balance them efficiently to improve ship design. If you look at this module, you'll notice crew and energy usage are well balanced and the reactor is protected and far enough away from each other to prevent chain explosions.
image https://i.imgur.com/M5FOqgD.png

dieaready

Teg It isn't my game, it is Walt's, and he also thought that missiles were near useless before so he changed it. The whole point of Cosmoteer is to build many different types of ships, and now actually making interceptor type craft needed means now we need to build 1 more type of ship. IMO it is meant to be the whole rock-paper-scissors challenge instead of just building 1 or 2 types of ships and then calling it quits there since they are the most optimal. Missile kites were already untouchable before, now they are able to actually do damage rather than just running away. Tournaments will not be any more about who can build the best cannon wall or the best kite, and now maybe we'll see a lot more variety in the tournaments.

albin_xl

ahem. let me present a ship who isnt a missile spammer and are a carrier.
the exelerator.

image https://i.imgur.com/nGusV9c.png

this ship has its fleet inside itself. unlucky this carrier isnt well protected so launch the drones fast. but the carrier is a beast in firepower. it destroys the cerberus almost instantly. but it has a weak point there its no shields. its good that the fighters are inside so you could just use the carrier. one thing is that if you use this with battlehelper. ensure to take away the structure on the bottom and the structure who hold the fighters to the ship. then if you use it in battlehelper. the fighters are often coming in the end of the battle to destroy the last parts of the ship and the fighters can get stuck in the carrier. with this carrier. you can protect the fighters inside while fighting outside.

sry if this report got long. i must get everything about it in here.

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