Venima Well, this whole thread has kinda become a discussion between the two of us. no one will bother trying to discuss it because there is too much that have been discussed already. That's what i meant. You just seem rather shortsighted, and seem to have gone from "trying to suggest something" to "trying to prove i'm wrong somehow", even though all i asked was to keep in topic. Tweaks for armor. Everything else i suggested was to solve problems those tweaks would cause. Then you suggest some new tweaks, unrelated to the topic (which is armor), which is completely okay, i'm just asking you to create a new thread for those suggestions. Now, about this:
Venima That's exactly what he did. You don't build an engine going 'I have no idea what people will use this for, but what the hell'. Charles Babbage built the computer for a purpose.
He built the computer to compute. To make calculations. He didn't envision people using it to play video games, that i can tell you for sure. But we do, because we can. He created a platform, people built upon it. That's the idea of the game. Creating a platform for people to build upon (virtual spaceships, namely). He doesn't envision how people will build and then create a way for people to do that. He might, if he wants, but it all started with "what would people build? let's find out". Or, at the very least "people would like building ships. I can make a platform for that and earn some money out of it". But you can't say he thought "well, people would use my platform to build ships like this, so i'm gonna do this and this and this". If any human has that kind of state of mind where they can predict what the mass population would do with their product to design around it, he wouldn't need a suggestion board, nor would he be designing videogames. He'd be in the stock market making millions. Now please, stop just trying to say i'm wrong.
Now, to some valid concerns:
Venima What if Walt decides to add 2 new types of armour to the game? Then the tweaks for armour is just wasting time.
wrong. not waste of time. If he implements anything he will have to tweak it all, all over again, yes. But does he? Does he plan on adding another type of armor? There's no such thing in the Roadmap, so... that invalidates your question altogether.
Venima What if Walt wants to make FTL fuel mineable from asteroids? Then the tweaks for FLT pricing is just wasting time.
Then that would create a whole set of problems, and armor tweaks, along with bounty rewards (money and FTL fuel) tweaks, something to mine said fuel, Tweak how much fuel would be mined, rather it could be sold or not. Implementing something takes time, a lot more time than just tweaking values for balance porpuses. But, again. Does he actually plan on doing something like that? i remember something similar on the Roadmap, but if i'm mistaken, your whole point is invalid yet again.
Venima What if Walt wants the player to buy a shipyard or increase pay for crew? Then the tweaks for bounty values is just wasting time.
Again. Does he? Nothing on the Roadmap related to that as far as i'm aware, so, again. Your question is invalid.
My suggestion is to make the current experience, with what we currently have, more enjoyable, and it would, undeniably (in my opinion) be beneficial in the long run, even if he does decide to add something that will force him to re-tweak those values.
Venima My post attempted this: Takes your motivation for balancing bounty mode, combines it with Walt's response, 'I'm not going to balance bounty mode', and tries to find a compromise that Walt is willing to implement.
My topic isn't just about balancing bounty mode. It's about it's whole market value and player likeability. If you're shortsighted about it it's okay, there's people with all kinds of different visions. That's why i said "Your suggestion is valid, but does not belong in this topic. Please, create a new thread for your suggestion"
Venima My post was a continuation of this discussion, even if the suggestions themselves were not.
And to add complexity to something that hasn't been considered, as you say, because it has unnecessary complexity, doesn't really help.
Venima the only reason I made that post is because of what you both said, and what you both said is the context for why I made the suggestions I did.
Again, the context of the discussion at that point might have been related to "balance", word you focus so much for whatever reason. But the topic isn't about that. It's very specific. Armor tweaks and how to solve problems caused by that with some other minor tweaks that wouldn't generate any other considerable "problem". Suggesting something on another topic entirely and justifying it with "the discussion was there then" is no excuse. Now please, I ask again. Stop trying to prove i'm wrong. Just contribute.
Now, just some things i'd like to point out about your logic for the sake of pride(since the whole discussion is now mostly wasted, anyway):
Venima If I'm littering, I'm littering in a room with only the people who are already invested in this discussion.
People won't want to discuss when they see there's a guy taking up almost half the discussion with irrelevant information and suggestions.
Venima don't go telling me to bugger off, because I won't.
I'm just saying "Hey, your suggestion should be somewhere else. But if you want to discuss the actual topic at hand (which is, again, armor tweaks and how to solve problems caused by those rather simply), please, stay. But stop littering"
Venima Also, nobody holds grudges here, we can't afford to. If we want Cosmoteer to be a great game, our commitment is to the quality of the ideas, not who is suggesting them.
True. But keeping it clean and easy to discuss has to be part of that. If i go suggesting random things unrelated to the topic everywhere around the forum and try to argue with the one who suggested the topic about unrelated topics i'm just being mean and inconsequential, among other stuff.
Venima My belated opinion of your suggestion: I like all of the things you suggested, but I believe the moment Walt changes how bounty mode plays, they may no longer be relevant.
Yet again. Will he? I see nothing that would interfere with my tweaks in the Roadmap, at least nowhere near future to "make my tweaks a waste of time" as you seem to be implying. Just stop trying to make up reasons to why i'm wrong and discuss the topic. Pointing out problems without, at the very least, suggesting a way of solving them, every single time, is not constructive.
Venima Can you tell me exactly which rank the jump in difficulty occurs? Because I can't. I believe it's as much down to the style of ship I've built, as it is bounty mode simply being unbalanced. So, what does this matter? Because this actually determines by how much you reduce the costs. To prove this point, I want you to tell me exactly how much armour, repair, and fuel costs should be reduced by. An exact figure please. And then I'm going to tell you, how can Walt possibly know that this will balance the game, and not unbalance it some other way (like flood everyone with credits)? Your answer might then be 'we'll try it and find out'. But that already admits to the fact that balancing this will take time: e.g. testing, and another tweak, and more testing, and another tweak, and so on. I believe Walt is trying to avoid this scenario.
That whole paragraph talks about the problem creating a thread in the suggestions sub-forum is meant to solve. Let's discuss it. Where/When does the "jump in difficulty" occurs? How much should it be tweaked to work properly? Going deep into these questions and answering them is constructive. Just saying "it'll take too much time, so walt won't do it." doesn't help at all. Offer answers. Ask the questions no one is asking. Point out mistakes. But don't come here just trying to prove something wrong for the sake of it. I'm done with this thread, anyway. I don't think Walt will ever read through all the bull$#!t you said trying to prove me wrong in hope of finding something actually constructive, so... yeah, i've given up on it, whatever. The only reason i still discuss this with you is that i hope i can teach you not to do this somewhere else in the forum.
