Proper tutorial...

ResExsention

Within the Cosmoteer wiki there should be an actual modding tutorial. The current "guide" merely links to the example mod and allows you to figure things out from there. Indeed, the mod.txt is pretty well notated, but the other scripts? Not so much. Aside from basic syntax there could also be a couple other things for explaining how to add parts and gameplay mechanics.

Cube

The way I did it, was just reading other people's mods and figuring stuff out from there. but I can understand that you would want a clearer tutorial.

Lafiel

There's only one person writing the guides and wiki... and the wiki does cover pretty much everything except the thousands of little changes made.

Anyhow, the consensus of the community is we don't want masses of noob mods that end up dead at some point and drown out good ones.

Modders should be able to figure out the basic by themselves with the given information. Only then would they be able to create good mods and be able to support and maintain them. In fact, I think the wiki is giving too much help on simple things like sizes, doors, rotation, coordinates, mirroring, etc. hundreds of basic stuff.
There should be dedication, commitment, and willingness to learn. If a modder doesn't have those and can't overcome these simple hurdles then he should stay away.

ResExsention

Lafiel I thought it was collaboratively maintained. I guess not.

I agree programmers simply shouldn't be lazy. Let's be honest -- it's how you end up forgetting. I also agree that the comments give a lot of information already.

It's vague in some places though, and for those who really want to mod but are intimidated, it can be really discouraging -- as if the whole thing requires at least basic knowledge of programming in other languages.

If anything I'm suggesting at least the example tutorial mod notates all the other script files properly and not just the mod.txt.

Lafiel

ResExsention Programming basics and principles apply to all progamming languages so it doesn't really matter where you get experience from. The only difference I see with different languages are minor syntax differences (usually begin/end signs) but mostly keyword (function name) differences. Except for C like languages most are "natural" languages (human readable). Even just learning creating html web pages is suffice here. But knowing a bit of java or BASIC is better. Of course there are exceptions: working with wiki templates for example is a whole different level. It's extremely inhuman to deal with. Probably the worse there is imho. Even grep looks like child's play in comparison.

I think the biggest problem for most is simply being afraid of taking the plunge and dive into the matter. But once you get a grip and understanding of the language and basic language rules (syntax) it's child's play.

I admit if you want to create systems instead of just changing stats, you need to be smart and able to think in complex ways. There's no way around that. An easy example I can think of is for example designing the logic for a vending machine. Just play around with how you would create the logic for selecting items, their cost and return the change. I don't think it gets that complicated here, though.

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Lafiel I used to be like that.

The syntax is pretty easy to comprehend, actually, and I have little issue reading code.

What I do find difficult is trying to learn to add parts and stuff, etc. with only pieced together bits of information to guide me -- and IMO it's time that could've been spent on the actual design of the thing.

So at the bare minimum, my suggestion is to make the example mod a comprehensive modding guide, if a separate one won't be created.

Lafiel

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blank look Modding now is like thousand times easier than when I started....

Most of the problem I had was that things didn't work as I thought they would or were supposed, too. It's still applies to functions, though. The difference between references was one of the problems.

Anyhow, I'm pretty sure the wiki, guides and example mod addressed the key point in the first sentences or paragraphs about Cosmoteer's script structure (see syntax). And I even went so far as to nag and drag Walt to write about references in details. That's all you need to know to use the actions. I'm pretty sure I emphasized this in the guide. So I'm not sure what's the problem here.
All you need to know to determine what action to use is to see what type of structure it is and whether it has a name or not. And then just write the correct path to it. The rest is just what ever body or detail you want to add/remove or change.

ResExsention

Lafiel It's not the syntax or complicated code I'm worried about.

It's the fact that everything seems vague and it's hard to figure out how to do things. A majority of the wiki articles about mod development seem to be about syntax and the actual implementation of stuff is confusing because I'm not sure where I can find information about that.

Lafiel

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I think we got to get down to the bottom of your problem.

I think you actually don't really have grasped what syntax is all about. It's not just about writing the language correctly it also represents ... structures and or equations in which you plug in the parameters. Only here parameters are not just number values but can be structures (components). So if you look at the syntax of a component you can see what kind of other components can be plugged in. There isn't a limit to how deep you can nest them but it gets troublesome and can could lead to bugs by you or with the game.
That's why syntax is everything. It tells you exactly what you can or cannot do and where to do it.
You just have to learn to recognize it. Maybe you need to memorize and learn to differentiate the cases for it to work for you.

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Lafiel As I said, I am not afraid of the syntax.

What I have difficulty with is how to implement stuff. For example, I am still yet to find a descriptive guide on how to implement parts for example -- what kind of code would I need to make it happen?

Walt

ResExsention Have you looked at the example mod that comes with the game? It shows how to create parts. If you still don't understand, it would help if you can say exactly what you find unclear.

ResExsention

Walt The problem I have is with the actual part script.

The mod.txt is really well commented, and it was easy enough to follow along. However, any other scripts including the strings and part code are pretty vague and there's a lot of Cosmoteer-specific jargon that I don't really understand.

Lafiel

ResExsention I still think your problem is the dynamic nature of all these working together. You see things being used here but not elsewhere and that confuses you. You probably also have a problem with understanding that things can be overridden (if conditions are met). And that is probably also made worse by references.
So what of these do you not understand well enough?

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@Lafiel I still think your problem is the dynamic nature of all these working together.

I agree. It's easy enough to figure out how each one handles its own, but trying to learn how to combine them into something useful is definitely not really well explained.

Lafiel

ResExsention In any case, for ordinary modding you would never come across cases where you actually need deeper knowledge. This level of modding starts with advanced+ level. It's the reason I've created the tiered guides. I believe by the Time you get to this level you won't really have any problem other than needing to look up syntax details you may not know. So all you need is practice at beginner to serious level the rest comes naturally.

https://forum.cosmoteer.net/d/6811-introduction-to-modding
https://forum.cosmoteer.net/d/6818-serious-modding

https://forum.cosmoteer.net/d/6819-advanced-modding
https://forum.cosmoteer.net/d/6820-master-modding

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Lafiel Surprised I never discovered this. It'd be nice if this were actually featured elsewhere than just the forums.

I'll definitely clear up some of the blank spots I'm missing right now then, thanks.