Cosmoteer Official Forum

KrankysFirebrand48

KrankysFirebrand48 It’s an average aircraft. Nothing more.

u wot XD

Now im British and id love to just say that the spitfire was a flawless machine, but the P-51 (specifically P-51B ) was perhaps one of the greatest fighters of WW2 for the important role it played.
It, combined with British merlin engines and extra fuel, was one of the only single-engine fighters capable of flying all the way to Germany and back to the UK with bombers.
Even the spitfires of the time would have merely dreamed to achieve such a brilliant thing.

At the altitudes that the bombers flew, the fighter was superior to almost anything that Germany threw at it due to the fact that of course, they outfitted the 109's and 190's to hunt bombers with larger heavier guns, making them slower and overall unable to counter the fighters as well as normal.

Oh, and that is ignoring the fact that it served in numerous countries for a long time, and even now is a civil aircraft.
Although Id prefer the spitfire in a dogfight, you must remember the design's purpose.

But regardless, with a lot of these you seem to be looking at it from a "best scenario" perspective.
Now sure, a lot of aircraft could outclimb or out-turn something, but then you remember that stuff like visibility and tactics make these aircraft very different in a fight.

(also, real life is not like war thunder or any other game, these aircraft often do not like pulling up quickly or making very sudden movements, in reality its very likely a pilot in a quick-turning plane might not turn as fast as he could for fear of entering a stall or spin. This also means ammunition loads are important, so twin engine heavy fighters have a HUGE advantage there.
Oh, and stuff like how easy the aircraft is to fly from a controls perspective also matters.)

Jenwuf the discussion specifies best fighter not best fighter escort. Did the b version have Merlin? And you can’t compare to the only nation it faced against. It was a great strategic plane but if you count the senario the German fighter could just outclimb the and dive down. Spitfire and yaks where very easy to fly. F6F, 109, Spitfire and numerous other fighters served long after. If it encountered a German fighter it would climb faster and never turn fight it. It doesn’t need to do sudden maneuvers to energy fight it.
And if you have an altitude over a twin engine you practically won.

Read this please it took long time. and i know he meant early mustangs
@Jenwuf

Jenwuf u wot XD

I destroy propaganda

Jenwuf Now im British and id love to just say that the spitfire was a flawless machine, but the P-51 (specifically P-51B ) was perhaps one of the greatest fighters of WW2 for the important role it played.

it's the fighter not it's role. u might as well say bf 109e because it meet polish and French paper airplanes.

Jenwuf At the altitudes that the bombers flew, the fighter was superior to almost anything that Germany threw at it due to the fact that of course, they outfitted the 109's and 190's to hunt bombers with larger heavier guns, making them slower and overall unable to counter the fighters as well as normal.

If you want to count the scenario, it doesn't matter because the p-51 had to fly at the same altitude as the bombers which mean the germans could ALWAYS have an energy advantage and thats where their planes shine. the discussion specifies best fighter not best fighter escort. Did the b version have Merlin? And you can’t compare to the only nation it faced against. It was a great strategic plane but if you count the senario the German fighter could just outclimb the and dive down. Spitfire and yaks where very easy to fly. F6F, 109, Spitfire and the other top planes dominated the sky at there time maybe except another plan over it.

Jenwuf Oh, and that is ignoring the fact that it served in numerous countries for a long time, and even now is a civil aircraft.
Although Id prefer the spitfire in a dogfight, you must remember the design's purpose.

so did yaks, 109's, spits...

Jenwuf But regardless, with a lot of these you seem to be looking at it from a "best scenario" perspective.
Now sure, a lot of aircraft could outclimb or out-turn something, but then you remember that stuff like visibility and tactics make these aircraft very different in a fight.

you must compare the time period. The p-51 counter parts during it's time usually as had good visibility. And if you far from an enemy you can start climbing then turn back and BnZ them or energy fight them easily.

Jenwuf (also, real life is not like war thunder or any other game, these aircraft often do not like pulling up quickly or making very sudden movements, in reality its very likely a pilot in a quick-turning plane might not turn as fast as he could for fear of entering a stall or spin. This also means ammunition loads are important, so twin engine heavy fighters have a HUGE advantage there.
Oh, and stuff like how easy the aircraft is to fly from a controls perspective also matters.

I do play WT. But i don't base my facts on it even tho it may look so as WT is very accurate. You also forgot g-forces which is underwhelming in WT. AND PLANES HAVE LIMITED AMMO LOAD IN WT. you can't say it's inaccurate until you know about it. I've watched plenty of documentaries and I've never heard a pilot say, "I didn't want to turn" or "i was afraid of turning". Ammo is important but firepower is to. You'll need way more ammo for machine guns as you burn them faster and need more rounds to down a plane. I agree the early cannon spits and french planes had little ammo for their cannons. and if you have an altitude over a twin engine you practically won.

Let's compare it to another fighter:

Spitfire mk XIVe should be directly comparable

Engine power
Acceleration: Spitfire wins with quite a difference
Top speed: very even but on both ideal altitudes the spitfire wins with about 20km/h
climb rate: This is extremely important m8. Spit wins
Energy retention: I could't find any confirmation but i believe the P-51 win as it has smaller wing surface but if you count the spits acceleration which is constantly pushing it forward im not sure.
Firepower
Guns: The spitfire is more heavily armed with two 20mm and four 7's. The mustang has 6 50cals. Pathetic
Ammo: The P-51d has almost UNLIMITED AMMO. Spitfires cannons 120 rounds per cannons.
Maneuverability
Turning: Spitfire by a kilometer (metric system>imperial system)
Roll: Mustang smaller wing give better roll

Visibility: draw
fuel: Mustang can have more oil in it.

You saw the end result. The spitfire dominates all the main fields that not even the best spit.

Lafiel I don't really know how to navigate this website or what to look for. Can you pls help me find what your pointing to. I'll quote some people. And i was wrong. the spitfire mk XIV does have a better roll. (That might only be the wing clipped variant.) I'm gonna quote some pilots for ya.

"Now, if I had to make the choice of one fighter aircraft above all the others - one that I'd rather have tied to the seat of my pants in any tactical situation - it would be, without any doubt, the world's greatest propeller driven flying machine - the magnificent and immortal Spitfire."
- William Dunn (flew Spitfires, p-47s, P-51s and hurricanes)

"I have flown both for many hours, and would choose the Spitfire (over the Mustang) if given a choice in a fight to the death."
- Erik Brown (flown both aircraft)

"The Jagflieger had to keep a wary eye out for enemy fighters, particularly Spitfires, a type JG 54's pilots had developed a particular aversion to...Pilot reflections do not, surprisingly enough, reflect over-much respect for the Mustang or Lightning, both of which the Germans reckoned their Fockes were equal to - unless they were met in substantial numbers."
- Writer Jerry Scutts, Luftwaffe

"Despite the pros and cons, the Spitfire was everyone's first choice." (Over spitfire, mustang and S-199)
- Gordon Levitt, Israeli fighter pilot

"English and American aircraft appeared on the scene in those closing days of the European war. Spitfires were the most feared, then Mustangs..."
- Karl Stein, Luftwaffe Fw 190 pilot (who served mainly on the Eastern front)

I have more but you get the point.

KrankysFirebrand48 Look at the lower end of the pages where they listed the aces.
Spitfire
Mustangs
Bf 109
P38 Lightning
F4U Corsair
F6F Hellcat
F4F Wildcat
Aircobra
And not to forget the lady aces...

But the statistics don't set the Spitfire apart from the Hurricane. The Hurricane actually could make tighter turns than the Spitfire, hence, better at dogfight. It's just slower; more rogged and easier to repair. Interestingly, for every one aircraft the Spitfire shot down two were made by the Hurricane. There were 29 Hurricane squadrons and 19 Spitfire squadrons and the numbers remained almost the same throughout which means 60% of Hurricanes shot down 66% of enemy aircrafts.