Krolon minigun that can work like flak? nonsense!
Verania it doubling as flak feels awkward (shouldnt cannons rather be able to fire flak? or an individual falk cannon?)
How would you feel if flak was separate from the minigun?
Verania it seems the minigun has ZERO effects on shields, do not penetarat them nor drain them, so it cannot be used on its own ever - at least a slight shield drain would feel nice.
CGDW The minigun also deals 0 shield damage
This was an oversight on my part and is not intentional. Will fix.
Verania What if mines also needed a seperate "mine layer device" ?
The current plan is for mines to be fired from the missile launcher so that you can use the missile launcher for different purposes during different phases of the battle. I will be updating the missile launcher art to make it look less weird, possibly updating the name too, to something like "Missile & Mine Launcher".
clubspike2 Damn I wish more devs where this transparent and involved with their community.
Keep up the good work man.
UltraBlast Why can the minigun, which also does damage to ships, deal damage to missiles? (I believe 0neye and Verania also said something similar)
I don't understand the problem.
Archduke The results speak for themselves.
No, they don't. I don't understand what you're trying to show with those videos.
samepage The AOE of missiles still bypass shields at 100%
I'm not seeing this problem. If it still happens after Missile Prototype 3.1 (which I will post shortly), please send me a saved game.
samepage shields don't take any damage form the missiles upon impact at all
Yeah looks like I broke this, will fix.
CGDW the mines bypass shields entirely
This is an "intentional experiment". I think it's kind of cool that mines can bypass shields and potentially creates interesting strategies with mines, though I concede that could also cause major balance problems.
Another idea could be to make mines bounce off shields without exploding.
CGDW the emp missiles do not damage shields directly. (though I wasn't sure if that was intended or not)
Tobi-wan_Kenobi The EMP missiles are way weaker than I thought they were going to be. I figured a couple missiles would down a shield easily. I find it odd that you chose to make shields strong against them
This was not intentional. I made a last-minute EMP nerf by shrinking the radius without realizing that it would no longer be large enough to drain a shield when hitting it.
- Increase the EMP radius if we think it's too underpowered in general.
- Give it direct shield damage if we think the radius is fine but want to make EMP good against shields (which it obviously should be).
I'm going to try #2 to see how we like it.
Tobi-wan_Kenobi I think the new point defenses are useless. Might call them pointless defenses. All of my old ships with substantial PD now let quite a lot of missiles through. Which is what you were going for I guess, but if that's the way it's going to be I'm just going to save cost and space and not use PDs.
They're supposed to be more-or-less useless at regular combat range but still useful at kiting range. If a ship that isn't worried about being kited doesn't use PD, then I'm okay with that. If PD still aren't useful against kiters though, that's a problem.
I think indeed PD might be too weak at long range, primarily because it takes 2 seconds for the PD to switch targets after destroying a missile, which makes them very easy to overwhelm. A few options:
- Decrease lock-on time. This would also make PD better at shorter ranges, which may or may not be a bad thing.
- Increase PD damage so that they can destroy missiles quicker but wouldn't make them any better against missiles that are fired from short enough range. I tried this myself and felt it was kind of weird which is why I didn't do it, but it's still an option.
- Allow PD to quickly retarget other missiles that have already been flying for a while.
- Reduce PD cost and/or power consumption.
Not sure what the best approach is here, I'm open to suggestions.
Tobi-wan_Kenobi If missiles are weaker versus shields now, then I'd rather have another shield in place of 2 PDs.
They're not supposed to be, but it's bugged right now.
Tobi-wan_Kenobi The idea is that the EMP missiles disable energy weapons and use up enemy manpower in replacing batteries. But the missiles take way more crew and credits cost than the things they're supposed to be disabling. In other words, they're not cost-effective. They don't seem to interrupt laser fire much, they don't take down shields, they don't really do anything.
Is this true even against an unshielded ship?
If so, I see a couple options:
- Increase EMP radius.
- Increase EMP drain amount.
I think I'm going to try increasing the power drain from 100% (which decreases with distance) to 150% and see how we like that. It virtually guarantees that parts within a couple tiles of the impact are fully drained.
Tobi-wan_Kenobi It's really weird that they do very little damage to shields but catastrophic damage to parts.
Nukes have the same shield damage bug as the regular missiles. Will be fixed. Let me know how you feel about nukes after the fix.
Tobi-wan_Kenobi I don't like that they start fires rather than explode. I feel like in they could be powerful in some situations, but I don't think they would be fun to play with or against.
Can you elaborate on this? I don't understand why you don't like that they start fires or don't think they'd be fun to play with/against.
Tobi-wan_Kenobi The miniguns; I've always wanted them in Cosmoteer, so I'm glad you're considering them, but... not like this. Narrow field of fire and short range combined feels icky for a continuously-firing weapon. I think a similar field of fire to cannons and similar range to EBs would be more fitting.
I'm open to changing the arc/range of miniguns in shredder mode (or as a separate weapon from flak). It's much more important for flak to have the narrow arc than shredder rounds, I really just set them the same to be consistent, but I'm open to making them different.
I think I will try increasing the range of shredder rounds to match electro bolts, but I'm going to leave the arc unchanged for now, because if I changed the arc then it'd be harder to justify why shredder rounds and flak rounds have different arc.
Tobi-wan_Kenobi Also, I think if they're an ammo weapon, the projectiles should behave more like cannon rounds, in other words travel slower than lasers.
Interesting, I strongly disagree with this. I'm having a really hard time imagining a minigun without a very high projectile speed. (I even thought about making them hit instantly.)
Tobi-wan_Kenobi As for balance, they feel really weak. They seem to have much less destructive potential than all of the other weapons. Shields stop them cold and parts can take quite a bit of fire from them.
The zero shield damage is a bug, but you might still be right, they might be too weak against regular parts. Against low-health parts like corridors, they have lower DPS than a standard cannon (same DPS as the cannon's initial impact, but the cannon can penetrate), and against armor they have 4x that, which is still not especially great for their cost and ammo usage. I'm going to try doubling their damage across the board, though I suspect that will be too high.
Tobi-wan_Kenobi Also, if they're going to be able to shoot down missiles, I would prefer it not be with flak.
Can you elaborate on why this is?
Tobi-wan_Kenobi The flak seems ineffective. Mass standard cannon fire still gets through with 95% of shots. Lasers travel too quick and fire too often to be weakened much. Certainly not enough to warrant using all that surface area, money, and crew. Shields are ten times more effective at mitigating damage than this flak. It's decent against missiles, but not as good as shields.
I agree, it does seem pretty weak. I'm going to try doubling all the effects of flak as well, see how we like it. Ideally flak would be the best counter against missiles but a worse counter than shields against everything else, but still not useless against everything else so that it's not a total waste of money if the enemy doesn't have missiles.