Why Cosmoteer is Failing (In it's Current State.)

ImNotLaffng

MegaNikiGaming Despite loving the game I cannot see cosmoteer ever becoming a big or complex game due to the reasons I will list below.

I can agree that Cosmoteer in its current state would likely not gain much traction beyond what it is now, but Cosmoteer is a quickly evolving and growing game with a tight-knit and mostly supportive community. With where the game is planned to be when the steam release rolls around, it will be a much deeper game. I think it is naive to say that you can't see the game becoming big or complex, the game has made quick progress with features that have a focus on quality over just pumping the game with more stuff.

It's singlepalyer and multiplayer will no doubt be leagues ahead of what it is now, especially considering the fact that at the start of the year, there was no multiplayer, and now we are going to soon be getting a third gamemode. There are many things planned for singleplayer all for show on the trello. Regarding servers, Cosmoteer really only needs one server right now, but later on more official servers and community servers will likely sprout up once there are the people to fill them.

MegaNikiGaming I will start by mentioning moderators who are actually good, IVIemories and yobeefjerky, however, some moderators prefer to move entire sections of the forum, work on their own mods or ban innocent people rather than actually moderate.

I would say that the moderators are the one of the best part about the community because they are in touch with the community, and have close contact with the Walt. Where some people see moderators as lazy, i believe that the moderators have quite a bit of restraint and patience. All bans that have sprouted drama were bans of people who overstepped boundaries multiple times and were just toxic, some people just don't see the full picture.

MegaNikiGaming My last point is that Cosmoteer is not unique there are many games where you have a customized 2d spaceship and you battle other 2d spaceships, for example, Istrolid and Endless Sky both free steam games and this is, in my opinion, the big reason why Cosmoteer will fail.

Cosmoteer's mechanics are very different from all other 2D space games out there, mostly seen with its easy modding, crew system, and many other aspects. I think Cosmoteer is well differentiated from other space sims in all ways.

TLDR; Don't judge how fast a car is when it is pulling out of the garage.

MegaNikiGaming

ImNotLaffng I agree the game will improve I'm just saying it's lackluster now and as for the moderators, to me they seem to be banning too many people. I would of course have no problem with the band if these weren't permbans.

MegaNikiGaming

ImNotLaffng Cosmoteer's mechanics are very different from all other 2D space games out there, mostly seen with its easy modding, crew system, and many other aspects. I think Cosmoteer is well differentiated from other space sims in all ways.

TLDR; Don't judge how fast a car is when it is pulling out of the garage.

You missed my point. I was saying that these more established games will hold Cosmoteer back as they are free and similar at first glance.

Dibs

Why a game still in development and Alpha testing will fail if released as is...

Walt

MegaNikiGaming In bounty hunter mode you pick a ship and kill some other ships until you have enough money to be much stronger than everyone else and get bored, there is no storyline, purpose, reward, friendly ships, space empires, lore or any sense of immersion, all the things that make a good sci-fi game are lacking

See Trello. Singleplayer improvements coming.... eventually.

MegaNikiGaming ban innocent people rather than actually moderate.

I have never seen a moderator ban someone who I thought was innocent. If a moderator bans someone without reason, that person should submit a moderator complain form and I will look at it, I look at all moderator complaints. So far, I've never felt that a moderator's action was unjustified.

MegaNikiGaming Istrolid

You reminded me, I met the Istrolid dev the other day, we live in the same area. Nice guy, cool game, play it. 🙂

MegaNikiGaming they seem to be banning too many people

A pretty significant number of the bans are already-banned people using alt accounts.

MegaNikiGaming I would of course have no problem with the band if these weren't permbans.

Bans are only handed out after multiple warnings/suspensions. If an account is banned without warning, then it's either an alt account of someone already banned or they did something unusually awful.

Tobi-wan_Kenobi It's going to blow away those other games you mentioned.

Thanks for the vote of confidence. 🙂

Ultranova

MegaNikiGaming I would like to point something out.

Cosmoteer is currently in development, meaning that things are going to change dramatically. I understand that you say "In it's current state" but it won't be in it's current state when its released. Take a look at these for example:

https://trello.com/c/NOPzZQyP/66-resources-mining-salvaging-trade
https://trello.com/c/tifRV7ic/1-docking
https://trello.com/c/Mbt0tgA7/68-missions
https://trello.com/c/bkHA3OiG/69-factions
https://trello.com/c/jvgX4ox5/78-boarding-parties
https://trello.com/c/DGCWMVXj/82-space-stations

And thats just the overall game. Bounty hunter is a temporary mode for learning how to play Cosmoteer. Creative is for messing around, blowing crap up ~~crashing the game with an overload of mods~~ and just having plain ole fun.

MegaNikiGaming In cosmoteer multiplayer, you can either join the one premade server or share your IP address to host a local game either than the IP sharing I have no problem with this as Walt has said there will be other servers, moving on.

I have no problem with this, but take a look at this:

https://trello.com/c/9Nh5UE6i/63-multiplayer-co-op-mode
https://trello.com/c/cePdhkyF/85-multiplayer-creative

MegaNikiGaming there are like a billion factions now and roleplay has become "My faction is stronger because I say I have superweapons.

The factions part, I have no problem with. The roleplay, I agree with. The roleplay has become a bunch of twelve year olds throwing dirt at each other (no finger pointing to anyone) and complaining they got stained by the dirt (no offense to anyone in particular)

MegaNikiGaming This is my biggest issue with the forum. I will start by mentioning moderators who are actually good, IVIemories and yobeefjerky, however, some moderators prefer to move entire sections of the forum, work on their own mods or ban innocent people rather than actually moderate.

I disagree with this mate. You have to look at the bigger picture to get an idea on how the moderators operate. Off-topic posts need to be moved to the correct places. Toxic and cancerous people need to be dealt with. Mods need to be worked on. You have to remember that moderators are only humans and can make mistakes.

MegaNikiGaming My last point is that cosmoteer is not unique there are many games where you have a customised 2d spaceship and you battle other 2d spaceships, for example, Istrolid and Endless Sky both free steam games and this is, in my opinion, the big reason why cosmoteer will fail.

No comment 😛

Good day

ImNotLaffng

MegaNikiGaming At release Cosmoteer will have a lot more to show so I don't think we can judge that now in Alpha.

Tobi-wan_Kenobi

MegaNikiGaming

Cosmoteer isn't anywhere near finished. There will be a single player game mode that involves a campaign with resource collection, missions, etc.

This game is in extreme pre-alpha, and it's going to change a lot as time goes on. It's going to blow away those other games you mentioned.

Jenwuf

MegaNikiGaming
http://www.gimbalgame.com/

Cosmoteer in my opinion has far exceeded what its predecessors have achieved...
A community.
It could be described as toxic sometimes, but ill take that if it means the game has an actual community that will keep it alive longer than gimbal lasted.

PewPew

MegaNikiGaming Without wanting to sound like a fanboy, what is the purpose of this thread? The development of the game is going on, I dont see any major obstacles to its progression for now and the game is far from over. It was enough to see the Trello, many things are planned. There is just waiting a little, I have been waiting for so much longer for other games. If you are already impatient now, when you are in an interesting phase of development, what will it be during the optimization updates that will arrive at one time or another?

As for moderators, I dont spend my time watching their every move but, they seem to me competent and friendly. I have nothing to reproach them for.

RedAndCosmoteer

Walt Offtopic: You met the Istrolid developer?
Reminds me, what has changed since i last played?

MegaNikiGaming Cosmoteer is a pre-alpha game so exactly none of the features listed are finished, and there are still many more features to come...
Endless sky? It isn't trying to be unique like cosmoteer is, where you can create ships using modules and make any design you like, and unlike Cosmoteer, it's basically a finished game whilst Cosmoteer is, like i said, not even close to finishing, and it will be no surprise if Cosmoteer surpasses that game in the end.
And, as many others have said, let me link you to the Trello Roadmap, which contains every single feature that Cosmoteer is going to have.

nop

I'll take the bait!

MegaNikiGaming Istrolid

A big difference is that Cosmoteer is trying to be a commercial game with a solid community, and Istrolid isn't trying very hard to be either of these things. If they went further in the AI design direction (a thing that makes the game really unique) I might play it again, but it appears to be a low priority compared to developing the RTS game.

MegaNikiGaming Endless Sky

Cool game, but I'm playing Cosmoteer instead, even unfinished the multiplayer is more engaging to me.

There are other games to compare Cosmoteer to, but I'm playing it because it's better, not because it's free.

Oneye

MegaNikiGaming The only thing I have a comment on is the moderator section.

MegaNikiGaming IVIemories and yobeefjerky

I agree that @IVIemories is a good mod, although I don't really agree with you that yobeef is a very good mod. I will start by saying what makes a "good" moderator. A good moderator will run "errands" like posting announcements, they will seek out and warn/ban toxic people, and they will definitely not be toxic themselves.

I don't have anything against yobeef as a member of this community, but I don't really see him as being a good moderator for these reasons: He has never posted an announcement. He has never banned/ warned anyone (that I know of edit: oh, he actually may have banned one person yesterday). He does not patrol the #ask-walt channel on discord like pretty much every other mod does. And pretty much does no moderator-like things at all, it's like he's a normal member with a yellow name.

I don't know enough to tell if yobeef is a good mod or not (you decide), but I do know that it's a mods job to be the "tough" person sometimes, and if a mod isn't keeping the community safe and clean then I don't see why they are a mod.

Eapple

In terms of Cosmoteer's competitors that you mentioned, Cosmoteer is far different from those games in so many ways, that it takes 2 different people to enjoy them. On the surface, both are top-down 2D Sci-Fi spaceship-building combat games, but they play and feel very differently.

Cosmoteer, on a grander scale, is just more simplistic and appeals to a wider audience because of it, hell, I've even taught my 6 year-old brother how to play, and he's definitely having loads of fun with this game. It's so flexible so that whether you're a noob experimenting with ships, just some average guy doing battles in sandbox, or someone who takes the game more seriously and competitively, all of that can be achieved in cosmoteer easily, which is why competition isn't much of a concern.

TL;DR Cosmoteer is more different from its competition than it might seem at first, reaching a wider audience with more broad appeal, eliminating much of the threat of games that look like it on the surface. (Even though there aren't too many of those in the first place.)

Dibs

Seems like this thread was just another excuse for more unwarranted mod bashing. They are doing their job just fine from what I can see.

Kids these days and their "**** the poh-lees, I don't need no rules" attitudes. I blame the violent video games and that rap music 😛

Ultranova

Dibs "**** the poh-lees, I don't need no rules"

Heh, I'm gonna have SOOOO much fun with a Police Faction 😃

Also, I totally agree that the moderators are doing their best.

minimurgle

Dibs I think that's possible, but I'm go go ahead and believe he is genuinely trying to be helpful.

IVIemories

Dibs It's not a bad thing to receive criticism from time to time, and unlike Alfrak's recent incoherent rant there are some valid points which I want to address here:

No single player content - I completely agree with this, Cosmoteer was (and still is to an extent) fun for me because I like building spaceships and watching them come to life; however right now - apart from the multiplayer - Cosmoteer doesn't provide much more than that, if someone wants play Cosmoteer for some gameplay they'll be very disappointed. However I do think it's really premature to complain about it since Cosmoteer is still being developed and the Dev is very active. You wouldn't call a TV series bad just because the first episode doesn't have a very deep plot, so you shouldn't call Cosmoteer 'lacking gameplay' when the gameplay is in development.
Mods get pushed to obscurity - The short answer to this question is: When the game gets on steam we won't need to worry about it anymore. Currently though we are aware of this problem, and part of the reason for the master mod list is to make the major mods use their own Talk sections instead of competing for space in #list-of-mods. We'll be looking about giving more mods their mod talk section and moving their threads in the mod list into their own section.
Moderators - There is a lot of stuff that goes on behind the scenes, and all the moderators are trying to do their best, but it might not be visible to the users. Whilst we've all made mistakes before (I've personally had to revoke a ban I made in mistake) I do believe we're doing our best and learn from these mistakes. @Oneye Beef does do a very important job of interacting with the community, and he helps out with policing and tech support. I joke in private that I'm the only moderator that actually does anything, but truthfully each moderator does a very important job in the community.

MegaNikiGaming

Dibs
I wrote this as I saw many flaws with the game and wanted to say my opinion.

DarkPearl

MegaNikiGaming In creative you build ships and fight them that is all, I find this game mode gets boring very fast and is overall, an unenjoyable experience

You need imagination. In creative modes, you have unlimited power, the only thing that will stop you from having fun is your imagination, Cosmoteer is about inovating, about growing, about learning with others and togueter create not just ships, we create the game in sense, if all we did was play it, why would Walt care about the community at all? Why would he ask our opnions when he could simply do it? And remenber Cosmoteer is made by a single person ever since 2011, Walt does this all on his own, we need to support him. He layed the bricks of Cosmoteer, we are what keep those bricks togueter.

Dibs

DarkPearl +1 to this.

Walt is trying to grow a community with this game, most of the issues in the last week or 2 are on us, the community, not the game or its development.

Dibs

minimurgle your probably right. I just personally don't put much stock in Intentions. Good intentions don't guarantee good outcomes

PewPew

Dibs The reality is that we can only guess the intentions of others. To ask oneself what are the intentions of others is a stalemate, one can never know for sure.

The real question to ask is: what is the best reaction to have? Do we prefer to be unfair to the most clumsy or to let a few ill-intentioned people wander as long as nothing serious happens?

From experience, the majority of people see themselves as well meaning and human psychology is constructed in such a way that they try to be consistent with that image of themselves. For this reason, the culture of crime spread by media such as rap is also socially destructive, because it reverses the process. Those who adhere to it are strongly encouraged to be consistent with the idea that they are ill-intentioned and amoral.

Moreover, it is often found that the ill-intentioned people end up destroying themselves. They have no chance in the face of people who spend their whole lives improving their environment. Because they waste their time destroying the environment of others and put themselves in untenable situations.

That's why I also prefer to assume that people are mostly well-intentioned or indifferent.