Radical idea for missiles

nop

Elethio Sensors add guidance

I like this idea, because it changes both forward and side-mounted missiles without just being a "DPS tax" like un-limiting in-flight missiles.

Tobi-wan_Kenobi

nop Sensors add guidance
I like this idea

But how could unguided rockets be useful? It's one thing for a railgun to be fixed and unguided - the projectile is fast. But missiles are kind of slow. In fights with a decent amount of lateral movement, the launcher would rarely fire because it doesn't have an intercept course. I think you're imagining largely stationary fights with wide ships, and I think those will be less and less commonplace as more people realize the defensive power of lateral movement and parts like the blink drive get added.

Maybe if the rockets burst into cluster munitions they would have a good chance to hit. But that's already going to be an ammo option for missiles. https://trello.com/c/WFM7A2gk

I just don't see this change happening, partially because it takes away the role of missiles. We already have lots of unguided weapons. Missiles are the only ones that are guided currently.

Elethio

Tobi-wan_Kenobi

I like the Jammer Idea that could totally work too.

nop

Tobi-wan_Kenobi But how could unguided rockets be useful?

Auto-firing forward missiles is already useful for those who think to do it.

Tobi-wan_Kenobi I just don't see this change happening, partially because it takes away the role of missiles.

How does it take away the role of missiles? It gives them a new role in addition to the old one. It would be a relatively slow, long range shot that can be stopped by both PD and shields.

Walt

Elethio Sensors would turn adjacent Rockets back into Missiles.

Similar to this idea, something I've been considering is requiring sensors to enable missiles to lock on without line-of-sight from the launcher to the enemy.

CATMASTER a sensor (right now) cost 20,000 so it will incress the price of making missiles by ALOT MORE,to the point that it is useless.

This could be balanced either by making sensors cost less (which would probably also mean their sight range should be reduced but made combinable) or by increasing the distance the sensors can be from a missile launcher so that a single sensor can be shared by a handful of launchers.

Tobi-wan_Kenobi The problem is that I think such a part would need alternative uses to be worth Walt creating. It can't just be an anti-missile part.

Possibly an alternate mode of the sensor array?

Tobi-wan_Kenobi But how could unguided rockets be useful? It's one thing for a railgun to be fixed and unguided - the projectile is fast. But missiles are kind of slow.

Perhaps they fly much faster when unguided?

nop

Walt Similar to this idea, something I've been considering is requiring sensors to enable missiles to lock on without line-of-sight from the launcher to the enemy.

This would, for no good reason, make missile walls inherently better than side-firing missile ships, which look cooler and have less protected width for reverse thrust. Missile walls already have the auto-fire advantage and a troll-level potential for reverse thrust.

Tobi-wan_Kenobi

Walt Possibly an alternate mode of the sensor array?

Nice, yeah. Sensor array isn't a very intriguing part right now anyway, it could use some attention.

Dalas120

Walt Elethio Sensors would turn adjacent Rockets back into Missiles.

Similar to this idea, something I've been considering is requiring sensors to enable missiles to lock on without line-of-sight from the launcher to the enemy

Why not put guided vs unguided on different missile types? Torpedoes have been a popular idea lately, and IMO it makes a lot of sense to balance missiles around guidance and a new missile type - torpedoes/rockets - around being unguided.

I think this is both more lore-friendly (different missile = different guidance, like real life) and easier to balance (separate factories instead of having to balance guided/unguided for every single missile type). And I think that thematically, sensors should be more of an intelligence part instead of a weapon buff part.

ja7833

Dalas120 separate factories instead of having to balance guided/unguided

Walt Tobi-wan_Kenobi But how could unguided rockets be useful? It's one thing for a railgun to be fixed and unguided - the projectile is fast. But missiles are kind of slow.

Maybe make unguided rockets a two part weapon (instead of the current three for missiles aka 2 + 1 guidance section) to increase the rate of fire.

CATMASTER

Walt > Elethio only for launchers attached (touching) the Sensors

Walt

nop Do you have the same criticism of the original idea in this thread, i.e. missiles can't seek at all without a sensor?

nop

Walt Do you have the same criticism of the original idea in this thread, i.e. missiles can't seek at all without a sensor?

No, because forward-firing missile walls get a lot of value from homing in practice, especially when fighting what should be their counter (multiple flanking ships). I'm not entirely sold on missiles needing any synergy with sensors, but this is a good one because it doesn't tip the forward/side balance.

Walt

Dalas120 That makes a lot of sense. I'll think about it.

Elethio

Dalas120

What are Torpedoes?
There are guided and unguided versions of Torpedos (the unguided ones are faster and more powerful but don't travel as far), as there are guided and unguided versions of missiles, the unguided versions, of course, are known as rockets.
The true distinction between missiles and Torpedoes is the medium they travel in. Any missile that travels in water is called a Torpedo.

However a distinction that matters more in peoples mind is their effect, and the name Torpedo carries a bit fear with it. because they are that more destructive.

In the medium of space combat, it makes sense that there should be small fast missiles capable of tracking and killing small fast targets, and it makes sense that there should be larger versions for taking out the bigger targets too. As well as size and power, Torpedoes allow more sophisticated tracking and other devices.

Giving Missiles and Torpedoes distinctive roles and behaviours

If PD was altered, not to be less powerful, but instead to be harder to mount on small ships, then missiles could fill the role of small ship killer, and Torpedoes (with greater armour tracking and power) would be better suited for taking out big ships. Particularly if they are given the ability to bypass shields- which doesn't have to be OP if the cost and size of torpedoes is enough.

CATMASTER

CATMASTER hmmm how to acutally so the blue thing lol

ja7833

Elethio

+1
I think a place for:
(1) rockets (smaller; unguided; higher rate of fire)
(2) guided missiles (medium in all respects)
(3) torpedos (larger; guided; slower; more expensive)
exists in the game and does not preclude incorporating:
https://trello.com/c/WFM7A2gk

nop

It does seem easier to balance different parts (factories/launchers) by cost and shape instead of having "buff blocks" to change the capabilities of launchers. e.g. if the current launcher only fired rockets from a rocket factory, the guided missile launcher only fired guided missiles from a guided missile factory and had different space/crew requirements, and so on. Otherwise all the ideas presented so far for buffing missiles (limiting number in-flight, adding guidance) are pretty much essential and everybody would always use them.

Limiting number of missiles in-flight is not a bad way to balance them, but as an add-on module it's a must-have, so either limit it or don't. It makes sense for guided missiles to have such a limit, but an advantage of unguided rockets would be that they are not limited in such a way.

Tobi-wan_Kenobi

So rockets could take only 2-3 missile parts to complete? That would be pretty interesting tbh.

samepage

Rocket = Partially guided missiles.
Rocket were guided only for the first few seconds (1~2 seconds). After that it can only go in a straight line. So it can still be used as side-mounted weapon, but with less accuracy.