A discussion that used to be about capacitors

Dalas120

I expect they'd be fairly niche, depending on cost. Definitely strong with shields (not OP though), but also potentially useful for things like railguns and point defense to help out with crew management. They could be VERY powerful for compartmentalization, allowing you to power a factory in one compartment from a reactor in a different compartment. Could also be used when you're struggling to attach doors. A missile magazine would be very interesting as well.

Overall I think they'd be more useful for crew management than for alpha strike storage, but since crew is one of the coolest parts of cosmoteer I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing.

Would power/ammo capacity be linked with the part, would it transfer instantly/rapidly, or would it take a second?

SpaceCat

Walt Not sure I buy that capacitors/magazines would make crew a lot less valuable, since they still have to carry power/ammo to the capacitor/magazine. They'd make alpha strikes better, but in a sustained battle you'd still need the same number of crew.

Agree on this one - so the question is do alpha strikes need to be even stronger?

Walt Ammo/missile storage are already pretty useless, so I'm not too worried about making them less useful.

... i wrote about this and shortly later i learned that ammo/missile-storages are actually NOT completely useless. A guy showed off a 2-million "spinner" type ship that used them effectively (attack, turn, load-storage, repeat). Maybe the 2mil-ship range is just not very well explored yet.

Dalas120 They could be VERY powerful for compartmentalization, allowing you to power a factory in one compartment from a reactor in a different compartment.

I do not see how this is possible - unless you have a way from one compartment to another ...
... maybe i do not understand what you mean.

That_Angry_Man

sounds nice.

nop

In less space than a shield + 6 caps you can just have 2 shields, if caps cost 500 (+200 for a door) it would be slightly cheaper but take up more space, cover a smaller width, and require a lot more access all the way around.
Of course if you're going all out, your shield is supplied by three reactors and something like 12-18 crew. Like a railgun, it's packing a lot into a small area at great size and expense.

Maybe all caps need to be full to recharge the shield?

nop

Nah, that would be impossible to reconcile if you're sharing any cap with something else (a weapon is an obvious choice in that configuration).

nop

SpaceCat I do not see how this is possible - unless you have a way from one compartment to another ...

One example would be that you could have an ion beam with just one bunk attached for the gunners and power it entirely from the attached capacitor. Overall, this approach is probably not a good way to realize fully-connected starships.

Another alternative would be not requiring or allowing crew access at all, so you still have to deliver power to the consumer parts. This would require that the "push" of energy is from any adjacent part to the capacitor.

Or set it up so that energy can't be pushed, only drained from the capacitor which needs it's own crew access in addition to supplying the consumer parts as usual. To use 1x1 for just one extra battery like this doesn't seem very exciting, except that if you are building compartments, you get to supply parts that you don't have access to. This would be like a very nerfed version of a "power grid" type block that conducts energy.

SpaceCat

nop @Dalas120

nop One example would be that you could have an ion beam with just one bunk attached for the gunners and power it entirely from the attached capacitor.

I think you do not get what "capacitors" would do!
They do not provide power them selves, they are NOT "minireactors".
They ARE storage-extensions for attached modules - you will still need a reactor to fill them up!

(Same with ammo & magazines.)

Equalizer

The ability to use capacitors as type of 'gate' that allows power to be transferred between compartments but prevents crew from passing probably would be most useful for missiles due to how they tend to draw more crew than is actually needed by some configurations.

Of course if there was more control over crew this could be accomplished in less clunky way.

nop

Overall there aren't any parts I look at and say "I wish this had more batteries" except maybe shields sometimes. People that run gimicky burst laser ships might be more excited, imo laser alpha is already strong enough.

The only creative uses we've come up with here so far are to eliminate some doors and to make compartments even better for achieving the peak of peak efficiency. I don't think is what vanilla is trying to do.

In most cases, existing storage does the job. A 1x1 or 1x2 storage might be useful, if going down the road of multiple sizes for the same function (nothing wrong with that).

nop

SpaceCat They ARE storage-extensions for attached modules - you will still need a reactor to fill them up!

Yeah, but you could potentially supply them using door connections that do not lead to the attached module.

Here's a brief rundown of things that probably shouldn't be allowed, imagining the fire extinguishers are capacitors:

image https://i.imgur.com/3MphFME.png

You practically make door connections where there aren't supposed to be any.

You might do something like this for shields:

image https://i.imgur.com/JbzjPpo.png

Or something like this for thrusters (no doors to the thrusters are required):

image https://i.imgur.com/xq5nopG.png

Maybe closer to the intended use:

image https://i.imgur.com/86qGhJO.png

Capacitors are boosting the lasers and the shields. If they are spammable, things might start looking like this.

GodoftheGrove

nop Things like shields still need to be manned though, and as I understand it the capasitor only works in one direction, invalidating the thruster design.

SpaceCat

nop Ok, pictures explain more then words here!
Think that is NOT how walt imagined their behaviour in the first place though.

I thought the extensions would only work IF they have door acess to the module they are meant for.

That would solve/cause:

The game knowing which module actually gets the extension, if it is adjecent to more then one module!
Preventing adding doors like @nop described/pictured it.
You lose one door "slot" with every attached extension (maybe preventing extension spam).

Another solution would be:
Extensions having NO doors and thus no crew access at all but simply extending a modules storage capacity and getting stocked when the module gets stocked.
If an extension is adjecent to more then one module then all adjecent modules can use and restock it (!?)

This behaviour would ofc allow for more extensive extension-usage (not preventing spam).

🙂

SpaceCat

I think if "storage-extensions" would work like in nop pictures above that would change "ship design" radically ... do not like it.

kieffer5101

GodoftheGrove shields are not manned

GodoftheGrove

In general, I applaud things that make the game more modular. I don't know how capasiters stack up to plainly jam a generator against the weapon, though. So far that seems the most simple, efficient solution to any energy needs a thing might have.

Maybe they have some use when the energy consumption of components is jacked up.

kieffer5101

SpaceCat or what if there was some kind of "connector" that you can place like a door in the wall, except these connect the capacitors to the object you want to power. that would also force them to be built where a door can too, making Nop's shield example not work 100%

Bubbet

SpaceCat that's a nice solution, I'm gonna offer the solution of only being able to place them on door spots.

kola2134

Walt its a great idea that i like but what about conveyor belts for total automation of ships to help transport resource plus to make factorys and maybe raw resources and furnaces as deco for people who like minign ships????????

GodoftheGrove

Maybe capaciters would be interesting is they where in competition with other components. For example a booster that boosts damage or shields, but that requires extra energy, so you'd have to find a good balance between boost and capacity.

SpaceCat

@Walt ... it is called "capacitOr" with an "O" ...

SpaceCat

Overall i like the idea of different modules/systems that all serve a very specific role more - then upgrades to existing ones. Fear of 2 much micromanaging.