Why does some large cannons have longer range?

keylocke

ok, this is my ship. FullFrontalMkIII
image https://i.imgur.com/tAqLAeF.png
and this was teg's new ship :
image https://i.imgur.com/JtuLIaT.png

we both have large cannons in the front area of our ships (i actually have more large cannons on my ship), however i noticed this :
image https://i.imgur.com/GdvJ6x7.jpg
his cannons are shooting at longer range than mine, and it also seems to be shooting more shots, even though i have more cannons.

heck in my previous design FullFrontalMkII, even his ion beams have longer range than my ion beams

then, i also noticed that at default AI settings, it is my ship doing the chasing instead of the one doing the kiting, even though i already done several speed tests (sprints and marathons), and my ship was decidedly faster in both sprint and marathon.

this was the reason how i realized the range discrepancy. so i forced my ship to kite and maintain missile range, and that's what you see in the screenshot i posted. his ship's cannons was shooting at me from missile range (i also noticed his cannons was shooting more shots than usual).

can someone explain why? is there a new game update? do i need to update my game?

Teg

keylocke I don't get whats happening either. Intuitively the ship kiting should have longer range, as you can add the distance the ships travel. But maybe something funky is going on. I think Walt is working on improved AI.
Reload wise, it might be my ship design? I have each cannon separated so crew never think about heading to another cannon.

keylocke

Teg

same, my cannons are also modular, so their crew doesn't go to other areas. both of our ships also have the same distance between ammo factory and the cannon. so reload speed should be the same (plus, since i have more cannons, my ship should have been unleashing more shots). do you have mods installed and have just forgotten about it? i really couldn't figure out the range discrepancy.

anyways, i've posted my ship in the OP, so feel free to try and check the range discrepancy between both ships.
(force my ship to kite at missile range. then adjust range until any ship starts firing their cannons, if both ship fires cannon at same range, then there's no range discrepancy. otherwise, game is bugged or something)

Teg

keylocke No mods, running 0.12.12. I'll do some testing too.

Teg

keylocke In my test, my ship was kiting, meaning your shots had further to go. Maybe the extra shots hitting the shields take crew from reloading?

dieaready

I have a sneaking suspicion that it is taking the targeting range based on the position of the control room.

keylocke

dieaready

hmm. nope. i just tested that just now.

here's my ship : i posted control room up front.
image https://i.imgur.com/DNBSlt2.png
this is the result :
image https://i.imgur.com/R61cmy4.jpg
both my large cannons and missiles aren't even in range yet, but his large cannons are already unleashing a volley.

dieaready

keylocke Then did you use the mod to increase the build area?

keylocke

dieaready i don't use any mods. i stick to vanilla until full release.

Teg in the recent screenshot i just posted. both ships started at rest, but your ship was already shooting. my ship isn't even in large cannon/missile range.

edit : you could also see that your ship was not kiting in that last screenshot, coz the thrusters are pushing the ship forward.

Teg

dieaready Did you get a chance to try both ships on your computer?

keylocke I'm getting different results, both shoot at the same time:
image https://i.imgur.com/q0FlGdc.png

Teg

keylocke Try in battle helper. Are any of the AI or allegiance settings different?

keylocke

Teg this is so weird. i don't know what's going on. has anyone else tested our ships yet?

Teg here's what battle helper says :
image https://i.imgur.com/YRRKnLV.jpg
its the same screenshot, i just opened battle helper.

Teg

keylocke Add the ships into battle helper and make them fight.
Edit:
image https://i.imgur.com/o263rRu.png

keylocke

Teg i already do that in each ship's menu. : i click on the button that has (rename ship, save ship, etc..) then i click on allegiance (i put your ship into player 2, my ship stays in player 1). then when allegiance is set, i activate both ships AI.

i also put both ships facing each other, 1 tile apart (largest tile when fully zoomed out)

dieaready

Ah right. Have you compared ship speeds? The AI fires on the estimated position of the enemy ship, so the faster ship's estimated position should be ahead of the slower ship's estimated position so the slower ship should be the one shooting first I think.

Also I've not tried them out yet.

keylocke

dieaready my ship is faster. but even then, i already force kited with my ship and forced it to stay within missile range. even then, his ship's large cannons was shooting at me, but my ship isn't even within large cannon range.

Teg

dieaready IDK if it's ship speed, I have a normal result in my test. Unless game speed is a factor, I have mine set to 1/4.

keylocke

dieaready

keylocke try reducing your ship's thrust. The game takes acceleration into account as well I think.

keylocke

dieaready even if i stop both AI (turn AI into none), but change allegiance of one ship (my ship player 1, teg's ship at player 2). even if BOTH are not moving at all. his ship's large cannons are still shooting at me outside of large cannon range.

dieaready

keylocke I'm out of ideas then. Probably would need to ask Walt.

Teg

keylocke Yeah, me too. You may want to change the thread tag to support. It would probably be helpful for Walt if you have a save file of just before the ship fires, so he can see whats up.

dieaready

keylocke last thing I can think of: have you checked what parts are being targeted yet? AI might be targeting teg's ion beams which are slightly behind while his is targeting your front cannons.