Tegs Big Modular Boxes Unbeatable Challenge!

Mc2

Do you have some new really strong capital ships?

The Big Box is really best creating you posted here, its capability to take damage is really unbeatable.

I created new ship- 2,9 million, put your creations in, set speed to 1/2, different aliegance and AI to normal.
Cube- destroyed after 9 hours, damage taken 1040.
Svarm ship- destroyed after 15 minutes, damage taken 4. I find it i some other post so i tried it.
Papilion- destroyed after 30 minutes, damage taken 0.
Your OP U misile ship- first time, game crashed when i get hit and part of my ship tried toexplode, Be so kind and thing a bit about people with weak PC, i have only I7 5500U with 8gb ddr3 🙁 This swarmms of missiles, pc does not like :S
Next time i used batle helper, set time to 1/4, then U ship destroyed after 45 mins,damage taken 27516. Luckily no missile pas trough to something exploadable.

Looking forward to see some new, strong capital ships, do not hesitate to limit yourself in credits 😃

Teg

Mc2 Without proof it doesn't mean much. To keep things fair you should always use Battle Helper, otherwise human intervention can change results.
I've got an 1.33Ghz Intel Atom and 2GB of ram and an integrated gpu so I can't even run large battles at 1/4 speed most of the time. It's one of the reasons I don't use mods or build many large ships.
I think Walt totally borked large ship AI, most of my ships now fly backwards which makes them pretty useless. U ship flies backwards too (I only recently tested in since the latest patch) so defeating it is a lot easier at the moment. Hopefully the next patch fixes these issues, then I might start building bigger again.

Mc2

Teg Oh no , defeat once again cube :S
So, U was defeated corectly. I can do paiplon and thet swarm, but not cube again, it its to long, and use one computer for just running cosmoter is not option, and unfortunetelly, cosmoteer does not run in window mode when you do something else on second monitor.

Yes, i complaint about ships flight and strange movement some time ago. But i figure it out, especially very large U ship with very low mass/thrust ratio, try atack with most possible strenght, and if faster ship try to get to its back and is already on one side, U ship just show its back because this allow it to shoot with most of firepower. By the way, this is why I prefer vulnerable, but very fast ships able to get to place of attack, while opponents ship, never reach its prefered spot. 😃 Your U, destroyed from back, but not so easily like 10 milion beast from inkles, his one can be beaten just by one shot 😃 (love chainexplosions).

Mc2

Your newest cube defeated. Im sorry for not so nice budget.

image https://i.imgur.com/nuc2k46.jpg

image https://i.imgur.com/npgDb7V.png

Teg

Mc2 In my test my ship was still at a bad angle, I made the ship symmetrical again to fix it:
image https://i.imgur.com/CZ0e4JT.png
Your ship became the kiter in my test 🙂 but in the test I did, my new version still won. (in version 13.0.1)

image https://i.imgur.com/18KCHud.jpg

Mc2

Hope you create something stronger soon 😃

Mc2

Teg That was fast answer 😃 XX6 and our previous cube were facing corectly, no corners.

Mc2

Ha, i think, that you should not play ships big like this and with lots of missiles on your machine. Because I find out, that if PC is not able to count all events, then it estimete, especialy for rockets. This may lead you to overestimate performance of big cube 😃
Even your newest ships is coming to same end on pc capable at least on slowest speed to count all actions.
image https://i.imgur.com/6wpuYcQ.jpg
after some time, you can see, that you are lossing cannons and pd in front, without dealing any significal damage to my ship, by the way, we are flying in huge circles, no ship capable to get to its desired position.

image https://i.imgur.com/6jh5eOC.png

time to sleep, lets see what i find alive in morning 😃

P.S.: Sometmes my ship purely kite, and that is advantage for you, because i saw on my eyes how shoot pass trough shield :S

Morning edit:

looks that its going to end in draw :S
image https://i.imgur.com/Q6YKkhz.png

Lets wait what i see lter. And for your i run another battle to confirm result.

Teg

Mc2 I have some new ships for you to try! 😃
image https://i.imgur.com/gGgCRlL.png
I wanted to see how small I could go and built this:
image https://i.imgur.com/hWtXcoX.png
My test result (after a pretty long battle):

image https://i.imgur.com/Yjc6lmC.png

Your ships have been a great challenge, I wouldn't of had the motivation to design new modules without them!

Mc2

Teg You are kidding me? How could i design answers to your modules so fast 😃 😃 😃

Hehe, looks like you get cosmoteerism as well 😃

Have to go to work. check later, and first of all, ill download 13rc top have equal conditions.

But way to defeat your cube is definettely very cautious approach, no agresive hitting face to face 😃

keylocke

Equalizer So are cannon walls now able to beat missile ships?

pure cannon wall against pure missile kites? that is highly unlikely, unless cannon wall got lucky with its initial volley when both ships charge and drift closer to each other than usual or it gets a lucky hit when its opponent's thrusters ran out of juice and fail to kite properly. (this is why i prefer linear thruster designs than the box thruster designs. coz battles are done in marathons not sprints. and ships need a lot more back/forward thrusters than side thrusters)

mixed-gun ships (large cannons + missiles) is possible to win against a pure missile kite. but it mostly depends on which one is doing the kiting.

Teg ooh, are those tail missiles supposed to make the AI kite?

btw, i haven't tested out the multiplayer yet. any feedback on it?

Equalizer

So are cannon walls now able to beat missile ships?

Last time I looked it seemed point defenses could be overpowered by simply throwing more missiles.
The issue seemed to be that all point defenses tend to fire together resulting them to all run out of energy at the same time. This leaves a small window for missiles to leak through.

Teg

Equalizer I had to add PD and rebuild my PD modules for better efficiency (still think they could be better,) but it was enough to stop your Missile U ship. It looks like the reign/rain of missiles might be over! 😃 (More testing needed to be sure.)
image https://i.imgur.com/xzKPkPA.png
image https://i.imgur.com/E7m20h5.png

Mc2

Equalizer Actually missiles were never able to pass trough enough PD, problem was how to deal misile kiter any damage, not how to handle missiles 😃

Mc2

Teg Equalizer U is over already som time : https://forum.cosmoteer.net/d/2892-can-someone-fully-explain-how-the-game-s-kiting-algorithm-works/8

after i come from work test battles were over, cube defeated. for sure.

image https://i.imgur.com/jDy3TR3.jpg

I thing that this has no winner, because when you know your opponent ahead, you alway find later or sooner corect answer to it.

System sicors paper stone works, even if it is not so smoothly.

Equalizer

Did you need manually tell your ship to close to cannon range?

When I tried your ship (using battle helper) it seemed to stay too far away resulting in a draw. It didn't appear to be taking any damage from missiles other than some shield hits so it looked like it would win if it didn't stay so far away.

Teg

Equalizer I used default battle helper settings with no interference. What version are you running atm? (I'm in 13.0 RC1 atm.) Edit: I also run larger battles at 1/4 speed, so that might be a factor too.

keylocke Teg ooh, are those tail missiles supposed to make the AI kite?

btw, i haven't tested out the multiplayer yet. any feedback on it?

Yep, after looking through your kiting thread, I thought I try to game the system a bit.
I haven't had a chance to try multiplayer yet, my discord is Teg#4549 if anyone wants to try it out with me.

Mc2

keylocke it is not cannon wal, it is PD + canons, and condition is that there are enough PD that can handle any number of missiles which can be shoot from 100x100 space.

Your wery fast kiter desired special solution, but or ships with more normal speed PD+ cannons is the solution.

keylocke

Mc2 PDs are always assumed to be included. so even if people say cannon wall or pure missile kite, there would ALWAYS be PDs so there wasn't much need to say it.

i think what equalizer was trying to ask was : if cannon walls can actually beat a missile kite?

that mostly depends on which ship is kiting. if cannon wall kites pure missile, then cannon wall wins. the ship that kites has great advantage. (especially if kiter is fast enough to stay out of range)

Mc2

keylocke Kitting is big advantage, so you have to make design which force enemy ship not to kite, that is beginning, one way is to make your ship kiter, second way is to force kitting ship to wild manuevering, which will lead from time to time distance short enough for cannon to reach you.

Equalizer

keylocke I was actually just wondering whether it is even possible to design a reasonable ship (i.e. not sacrificing almost all fire power) that can absorb constant missile fire without taking any damage.

There always seems to be some gaps in point defense fire but it does appear that a blend of point defense and shields that extend far enough out to block splash damage works.

I am not going to comment on kitting other than that I think that is more of an artifact of the current state of the game and that it is slated to go away sometime in the future.

Teg I tried on the last stable release (0.12.12), so I guess the distance control has changed in the newer version.